Boom so did.
Nice way to create a 'boom' after your army stint Boom.
Racism and ableism, two birds with one stone?
The Kikwang incident, Star King incident and now this.
Aww Shindong and Suju why am I not surprised to see you there?
@7:45 "I'm Dongrah Winfrey but I've suddenly become a slave-driver"
Well this isn't going to stop any time soon I assume.
As a Black Kpop fan myself,I can def understand the outrage. Sadly he won't face any backlash from this most likely.
ReplyDelete^This.
ReplyDeleteI love kpop and k dramas, but this shit really ruins it for me sometimes... It makes it really hard to explain my interest in kculture, as a black person, when they do this crap.
You can't copy our music and dancing and idolize our star and then pull shit like this! I mean really...
Tool.
ReplyDeleteanon 10.22: I'm not even black but I think exactly the same way.
ReplyDelete=.=
The way he holds the guitar pisses me off.
ReplyDeleteLet's see how can u impersonate Steven Wonder without putting on dark makeup? I don't get why people are so hella annoying about this.....When black comedians impersonate a white celeb on most shows they put on whit make up, Dave Chapelle anyone?
ReplyDeleteSo stop getting all sensitive about it.....Oh and i am black more like African to be precise.....
@11:55
ReplyDeleteThe old "I'm not offended so why is this offensive" argument I see...
I'll raise you a "Just because you're not offended doesn't make it okay."
@11:55
ReplyDeleteIf you are black, you need to go learn more about your own culture and heritage. Go on wikipedia and read about black face, your ignorance is offensive in it's own right
how they will be able to break into the American market i have no fucking clue
ReplyDelete@11:55
ReplyDeleteIt's not being sensitive if there's been a highly derogatory+damaging+racist precedence for it. Maybe you're not a black American, if that's the case then maybe I can somewhat understand how you don't understand why this is offensive, cuz from what I understand blackface didn't really happen outside the US, and blacks weren't constitutionally a sub-human race til the 1970s in any other country but the US. But.. jeez. It's the same deal as whites taping their eyes shut ala Mickey Rooney and talking with a "chinaman lisp" and thinking its fucking hilarious... when it's not. It's the majority group getting their shits and giggles through "impersonating" and spreading around a negative caricature of an entire minority group.
And the reason it's not that offensive when black people put on "whiteface" is because it's the minority impersonating the majority, not the other way around. And I think it's obvious that the types of impersonations done are pretty different too.
As for Boom, I don't know the context of this, looks like he was just impersonating a celeb in some mini public performance and if that's the case then I don't think this is all that bad. Didn't see the vid or read any articles on this. But Shindong's "Dongprah Winfrey" stunt on Strong Heart made me want to vomit all over his face. Cuz that was clearly blackface and fucking blacklips put on for shits and giggles and nothing else. He's such a shithead.
What are the Kikwang and Star King incidents also?
ReplyDelete@Anon 3:48
ReplyDeleteKikwang also had a blackface skit on some variety show. On star king, a girl living in saudi arabia went on the show to sing and a guy dressed as the police in that country walked out with a toy assault rifle.
I don't even worry about crap like this. I know its wrong, but what do you do when no-one in the country cares? Good thing kpop has like 7 black fans who are willing to swallow their pride and just move on. But seriously Oprah could fucking buy shindong and everyone on that set if she wanted to. Disrespect to the most successful woman in talk tv whether she is black or white is horrible no matter what.
ReplyDelete@11:55 most black comedians only "talk white" when impersonating white people. Only on tv shows can you go through all the trouble of putting on make-up. Also the stereotypes presented don't have negative implications, that's the big difference. Most black people aren't as sensitive as Al Sharpton..they brush shit off and move the fuck on. That's why they are the cool race...duh.
This is why I don't want the stupid Hallyu Wave to last cause its just ignorant and tasteless. I mean other then the "cute & pretty" people in Kpop nothing else makes it stand out.
ReplyDeleteBut seriously Boom your a racist, ignorant FOOL.
dude...i liked boom....
ReplyDeleteWTF!?...you racist fuck.
typical korean
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible to tell from these pictures how offensive you should consider it. It could be going two different ways:
ReplyDelete1) Haha, I'm impersonating a famous person and it's hilarious! (see: Elvis)
2) Haha, I'm impersonating a black person and it's hilarious because you black people so crazy!
The latter is offensive. Te former is not made offensive just because people had done the latter in the past. It is all about the intention and the reception. Clearly they are having fun in some way, so how did the performers perceive the nature of the fun, and how did the audience?
Bear in mind, race can even be a point of the humor in the former. The thing that make impersonating a celebrity funny is how you are definitely not them, but you are trying to be. So if race plays into the disparity between you and them, it can make it more funny. Yet this still doesn't equate to mocking a whole race of people for being different from your race.
So I need more context before passing judgment.
This issue is way too difficult and way too sensitive to "quickshot" with a small article. America's messed up racial relations are not universal knowledge, and the context Westerners put blackface in (minstrel from the 1920s) is practically unknown in Korea.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying there are NO racist blackface incidents, but to use broad strokes here is unwarranted. It needs to be looked at case to case.
In Belgium and the Netherlands there is a blackface folklore tradition called 'Black Pete'. Would that be racist?
wait, im confused. who is he dressed as?
ReplyDeletealso, more christina aguilera boob gifs please
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that he had malicious intent?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm not sure how these pictures make him racist...
Firstly he didn't need to make his lips bigger, wear braids or put on brown make-up to be Mr. Wonder. And even then, I don't find it funny to mock a blind man who has made history after over-coming some serious adversity.
ReplyDeleteIt's ignorant to make fun of someones skin color and their features. It's not just the pictures for all the people hell bent on defending his ignorance, it's that this has happened in Kpop time and time again. You don't need malicious intent to be racist...most racist are ignorant and ignorant only. Neo-nazi's have malicious intent. Mel Gibson is just a racist.
Too be honest, I think he was impersonating a Black celebrity. I doubt it has much or any racism.
ReplyDeleteWhat Kikwang did though, was racist. I'm not sure if he knew, but, the producers, directors, and/or writers knew. Everything was just too coincidental. The wig, the hoop earings, the typical Blackface makeup, and the watermelon (yeah, I know Koreans love watermelon too.) They might as well had put in some KFC and red Kool Aid.
Boom on the other hand, I doubt it was meant to be offensive.
I think people are upset about this because of past offenses involving kpop but in boom's case he was actually just trying to make a mock band and he used stevie wonder because he has a tendency to be really expressive imo (although the brown paint was unneccessary...). But in this case it wasn't meant to mock or slander anything it was supposed to be fake music and they were supposed to fail at being stevie wonder, min even got up there at one point and danced with them (and she is defo not racist, she admitted to dating black people lol).
ReplyDeleteTasha even said that they didn't have the intention of offending anyone with this particular incident... although she did call the other incidents like starking and shindong's crap ignorant.
ReplyDeletehow racist
ReplyDeleteracism is a crime
crime is for niggers
^ the fuck????
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ajjushi(?), I've gotta see the context in which he was doing it (though I do think the black face paint wasn't necessary, I think the glasses, fake hair and music was enough).
My thing wih this is 1. Its being done again again and its like none of them are hearing people call it out as wrong
& 2. For an area with such a deep & intricate culture you'd think they'd take the time to look these things up, or at the least hear about the negative responses previous people have gotten and think "naw, I don't want to be percieved that way"
It DOES make it so hard to enjoy kpop
Anon 7:12 - Trololol
ReplyDeleteWhites commit the most crimes, and have the least jail time on average compared to blacks.
How does impersonating = mocking? That isn't automatic.
ReplyDeleteThose claiming racism need to explain what exactly makes it racist. You can't just throw out that accusation without a basis of reason. There is a lack of evidence here that he did it in the same heart as blackface of the early 1900s.
^especially when most people outside of the us (like me) don't know much about blackface at all; where I'm from in Europe, the cultural implications are different.. All I see when entertainers mock black people is gross distortions appearance wise and offensive black paint, that has nothing to do with 'blackface' from my viewpoint. In this case although I still think suju can burn in hell especially those three, apart from the face paint, I don't think Boom did anything wrong. To assume that is just as ignorant and the bandwagon hate and assumptions are unjustified imo.
ReplyDeleteWhy is he impersonating Stevie Wonder at a idol sports event anyway?
ReplyDelete@11:55AM You are disgrace to black people. I am so sick of all you prideless black girls who are so desperate for Korean peen you sit back and excuse your oppars for constantly disrespecting and degrading our race. Do you honestly believe any of these men would date or marry you? Go get some pride and learn some self-respect. And this is coming from a fellow black woman.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I want to agree with the people who are saying that they need more information about this before passing judgement...
ReplyDeleteK-pop does not have a good history when it comes to portraying other races and religions. That's why people are assuming that this time is just another display of idols' ignorance.
Stevie Wonder's toilet is more relevant than Boom and Leeteuk could ever hope to be. Don't even get me started on the Oprah reference. >:(
you need to understand the history behind 'blackface' and why it is so offensive.i dont need to be a black american to be offended by blackface,im black from africa and this shit is offensive.everyone saying we need to understand the context of the use of blackface in this setting is kinda bleh because they arent doing this to highlight how offensive it is or using this as some sort of social commentary.
ReplyDeleteexaggerating or distorting features of a certian race is offensive ask how asians feel about 'chinky eyes'.
As stated before, just because he is impersonating someone doesn't mean he is mocking them. I doubt he was mocking Steve Wonder. I really doesn't see what can be taken too offensive from the pictures alone. Just because something has history of being offensive doesn't mean everytime its portrayed it is meant to be offensive and vise versa. But its best to see it as a whole to truely understand what was the intention.
ReplyDeleteKoreans need to stay the FUCK away from other cultures/races everyone there is so ignorant its not even funny to me anymore.
ReplyDeleteShindong, stfu man. I'm so tired of sticking up for the shit that this guy does; you can only blame the ignorance in his upbringing for so long.
I can't believe this... I really can't believe this.
ReplyDeleteThis is offensive. I don't care how you cut, it is offensive. BLACKFACE IS OFFENSIVE! It is racist and ignorant and disrespectful.
No matter how you try to justify it or put it in "context," it is wrong.
No matter where or when it occurs, inside or outside of the US/ on TV or on the streets, it is wrong.
No matter how many black people you find that say it’s okay, it is wrong.
I know it's difficult to understand for some people, but this hurts me. It hurts. It starts off as anger, but always ends as sadness.
If you've never been discriminated against maybe you can't get it, and I envy you, but for those who know what it’s like to be prejudged based on the color of your skin and not the content of your character… come on, really? Can you not see how destructive this behavior is? Not only to the black race, but to society has a whole?
I love kpop, I really do, but to know that these people can be so ignorant and set such a bad example… it makes it so difficult to say the least. Also, to see people on THIS blog saying anything other than that this is wrong (unmistakably wrong) saddens me to no end. I clearly expected too much from some of you, completely my fault….
It kills me that people can use elements of my culture (our dance styles, our music styles, our fashion, our personas) and be so blissfully ignorant of its context and meaning and of our history and struggles.
Please don’t try to justify or explain this away. Please don’t let intent to sway you. Please just acknowledge that this is wrong. It needs to stop and that it is wrong.
Well, even if you want to defend Bom, at least we all know Shindong is one racist asshole, as well as a stupid mysoginist. And Leeteuk is no better.
ReplyDelete^ Fuck, I meant Boom, not Bom ! ^^"
ReplyDeleteracial issues aside, that's a pretty crappy stevie wonder impersonation. looks more like little richard with braids. or a light skinned version of that saxophone dude from that brave girls song
ReplyDelete^it's especially lolsy because his hands are still white as fuck...
ReplyDelete"This is offensive. I don't care how you cut, it is offensive."
ReplyDeleteThat is only always true if you always choose to be offended.
"It is racist"
How?
"and ignorant"
Of what?
"and disrespectful"
What makes it so?
"No matter how you try to justify it or put it in "context," it is wrong."
No matter where or when it occurs, inside or outside of the US/ on TV or on the streets, it is wrong.
No matter how many black people you find that say it’s okay, it is wrong."
What makes it inherently wrong?
"I know it's difficult to understand for some people, but this hurts me. It hurts. It starts off as anger, but always ends as sadness."
Why? What is the message you are recieving from this that makes it hurtful? Surely people with paint on isn't painful. It must be communicating something to you to cause that. What are they doing when they do that which makes it hurtful? Is it truly something they are doing, or is it something you are doing to yourself by dwelling on a painful history?
"If you've never been discriminated against maybe you can't get it, and I envy you, but for those who know what it’s like to be prejudged based on the color of your skin and not the content of your character… come on, really?"
Where is discrimination in this? How it is mocking a race? How is it "lol black guy!" and not a homage like any other impersonation of an iconic musician, like when people impersonate elvis, the beatles, madonna, etc?
"Can you not see how destructive this behavior is? Not only to the black race, but to society has a whole?"
Apparently I can't. Are you capable of explaining rather than just asserting that it inherently is? Surely if it truly does have a real effect, then that effect can be described.
"It kills me that people can use elements of my culture (our dance styles, our music styles, our fashion, our personas) and be so blissfully ignorant of its context and meaning and of our history and struggles."
That's too bad, but it happens to every culture. Do you have any idea what tartan patterns mean to Irish people and their history? I bet you don't, and that you also don't give a shit when people use them and many other parts of their culture so freely. You are chosing to be offended by holding onto the pain of the past rather than a beauty and mutual appreciation that can occur in the present.
"Please don’t try to justify or explain this away. Please don’t let intent to sway you. Please just acknowledge that this is wrong. It needs to stop and that it is wrong."
No, I need a good reason before I condemn people. Nothing is simply inherently wrong. There are reasons. If you can't explain those reasons, you have no business demanding that others judge and condemn people for actions they don't even understand. The world doesn't become more understanding of each other by getting pissed off, it happens by being gracious and patient with each other and explaining how you view things. They will never learn better unless they are taught by those who know. You are doing nothing to fight ignorance, you are only turning it into an angry conflict when it could have been an innocent misunderstanding.
fuck you
Deletejust let people comment on this site w/o you disagreeing about it and making some defensive shit comment
Delete^You are making yourself look like an ass. Just stop.
ReplyDeleteIf you're not offended good for you, but this isn't an innocent misunderstanding.
They may not be aware of HOW hurtful this is to some people, but that doesn't make it any less offense or racist.
I wish someone would fire 아저씨 , his articles suck and he is an ass. I don't understand why some "good" authors got fired while 아저씨 got to stay eventhough he is one of the worst.
ReplyDeleteAGREE!!!
DeleteThe way Boom imitated Steve Wonder was insulting. Stevie Wonder is a legend, if you're going to imitate him at least show some respect and don't ridiculize him by using some dumb and exaggerated mannerisms.
ReplyDeleteAhjussi's comments are more logical and reasonable than a lot of the comments here regarding this issue...
ReplyDeleteNona said...
ReplyDeleteKoreans need to stay the FUCK away from other cultures/races everyone there is so ignorant its not even funny to me anymore.
Lol the irony.
Someone referenced MLK Jr up there. When he made arguments for far more serious issues, he actually used reason and explained his points very intelligently. It didn't matter how obviously wrong the things he stood against were, he explained his basis of thinking. In fact, that is why he was so iconic. He didn't just explain what was wrong, but he even explained how beautiful things could be, and how and why they were different.
ReplyDeleteThis issue is far, far, far less than the things he stood against. Yet you seem completely unable to articulate why you are offended and how Boom caused that offense by doing this. You will never make any progress to your cause by acting this way. It is like all the South Africans who got angry and fought, yet nothing changed (aside from becoming more violent) until Nelson Mandela and others like him handled things with reason, education, and law. Now that they ended apartheid, one of the biggest struggles is calming/ending the gangs which formed because people chose anger over reason.
You may have noticed that I haven't even defended Boom. All I have said is that I don't see how what he did is wrong. I am asking you to explain, because I don't see it. I am willing to listen to reason. I am willing to say what he did was wrong if you can show me how it is wrong. Is this how you treat people who are just trying to understand you? When is it ever acceptable to demand from other people to act and view things in a certain way without giving them an explanation? Isn't "just shut up and obey" the mantra of slave drivers? You're only hurting yourself here and I'm trying to help you do better.
oh god stop it already
Deletecan't even go through this comment section w/o seeing your shitty replies
i don't think it's necessarily racist.
ReplyDeletei think it's stupid, ignorant, tasteless and incredibly rude. not necessarily racist though.
아저씨, you are fucking awesome! Preach to the retards!
ReplyDeleteTo understand why black people deem this offensive, you need to understand the social implications of blackface and why it was first used.The origins of blackface was to demean black people more specifically African Americans,by pushing white American stereotypes about black Americans.You understand the reasons behind why blackface came about and how it portrayed black people,you will understand why it offends black people.
ReplyDeleteI've found that trying to make people of other races understand the struggles of your race and issues that your race face is really hard.
Ajussi if they wanted to impersonate Stevie Wonder it could have stopped at the glasses and the piano,because people impersonating Madonna and Elvis and all the other white people that you have mentioned don't change the colour of their skin to drill the point across. Why did he have to paint his face?
"It is like all the South Africans who got angry and fought, yet nothing changed (aside from becoming more violent) until Nelson Mandela and others like him handled things with reason, education, and law."
There are a lot of things that the ANC did that were violent that Mandela and Sisulu and all those guys were involved in.
But why must that connotation be carried forever? Why does the fact that it was once used for mocking mean that anyone who does it, even out of simple ignorance, is unintentionally mocking? I don't understand how a person can unintentionally do something like that. It might remind you of something bad, but how does your memory make the reality different?
ReplyDeleteIt's like if a girl were raped by a guy who sang a certain song to her, then a different guy also sings that song to her and she calls him a rapist bastard. Is he connected to the previous guy at all? No, but the memory trigger is something she has to deal with because of something a bad person did. She shouldn't assume bad things about the new guy because of a surface-level similarity of actions, or say that no one can sing that song anymore.
Because of this, I can understand why someone would call this insensitive to race-based struggles, in which case those who did it need to be educated. However, I don't see how it is racist itself, to justify calling them racist and passing judgment on them. If there is some proof they did it to mock black people, go ahead. However, if there is no evidence of that, it can only be called insensitive, and mostly out of not having any black people in their lives to let them know about these things.
I really just don't see how anger and judgment helps ignorance. The only thing that can help is explaining things calmly.
if you don't see it as racist OK. just say it once and be done with it. no need to keep on emphasizing it every time when others say it is racist. ugh so damn annoying, can't even let people state their opinion without getting some stupid replies from you
Delete"However, if there is no evidence of that, it can only be called insensitive, and mostly out of not having any black people in their lives to let them know about these things."
ReplyDeleteI dont think it is racist per say but more insensitive,but Im sorry ajusshi using ignorance as an excuse is lame.
Even with the law ignorance isnt an excuse.
Here I am in South Africa a third world country,I dont personally know any Asians or Koreans but I am willing to learn, i am willing to learn about other cultures,Asians culture,their culture.
They live in a first world country where they have access to information easily,they have access to the internet,tv...etc,sources they can use to inform themselves of the world.
Yes let us inform them but when are they going to take initiative and inform themselves.We cant keep making excuses for ignorance, and let us be honest, how many times have we seen these blackface performances from these people?
Boom and his crew aren't the first,if the star king crew could recognise that painting the Arab world as gun slinging maniacs is offensive then surely something should also click with blackface.
"I really just don't see how anger and judgment helps ignorance. The only thing that can help is explaining things calmly."
Anger is a natural emotion when issues like this pop up,is it helpful no,but is it justified YES!
Race is a hot topic,you will have your points and I will have my points. Especially when it comes to issues that affect your race.
Trying to imitate the great Stevie Wonder is already an insult. Making Stevie Wonder look like a retard is even worse. So yeah, Boom failed on all levels.
ReplyDeleteSo, let me get this straight:
ReplyDeleteIf I were to say... dip my face in yellow paint, pull back my eyes with tape, and slick back my hair with black paint.
Then, for shits and giggles, in front of a crowd on non-Asians at a sporting event dance around to Sorry, Sorry screaming I'm Shuopaa Juniea, that wouldn't be at all racist? It would just be insensitive?
Oh, and I swear I wouldn't have any negative intent and I have no Asian friends (or internet access) to tell me its wrong. Its totally okay, right? I can so get away with that without anyone being angry and upset, right?
Cool, I'll try that out the next time I can! Hopefully, it will make it on Youtube!
Thanks Ahjussi! I've learned so much from you~
@4:27 AM
ReplyDeleteHate to break it to ya but there are a lot worse things than some mere cultural ignorance. Y'know in the past year we've had a natural disaster or two. People have DIED. Get over yourself, there are more important matters than silly race issues. It is not that big of a deal, nobody is getting hurt, and people are just overreacting to something that happened in the PAST. If you can get so worked up over something that happened so many years ago, maybe you should care a little more about CURRENT world problems...
I don't see how trading one culture's history of racism with that of another defeats what is going on here. In both cases it is a matter of sensitivity to history, and the level of racism is closely tied to the level of knowledge and attitude. Just by the point you are trying to make with that, it's obvious that you come from a country that has dealt with racism. Coming from your knowledge and experiences, it can only exist to you as a mockery. Your perspective is too broad and inclusive to fit into a smaller, more ignorant one.
ReplyDeleteBut just because you are unable, does that mean it is impossible for anyone? Is it truly so impossible for a person to do this without racism? I named before about people who impersonate celebrities for kicks. Well sometimes guys also dress up as women for kicks and use fake boobs and everything. The entertainment isn't in them mocking those they impersonate, it is in them being completely different from what they are trying to impersonate. Their total failure is the humor, unlike racist portrayals where the humor is supposedly supposed to be from the accuracy, exaggerating differences and mocking them for how they are different.
Is it possible that this could have been from that latter attitude? Yes. I have said that several times. However, the former is also possible, so before you condemn someone you need some evidence. I'm okay with what Liley is saying, that they need to accept the reality that the world is globalized, and that what we do is seen by the rest of the world, so we need to educate ourselves. However, anger, hate, and judgment should only be passed to people with good evidence, and individually. Don't make them out as a racist if you don't know their perspective, and don't generalize your attitude against the whole industry/nation they are doing it in.
And even if it is racism, when have we ever seen anger solve that problem? I personally never have. I have seen anger create enemies and rivals, and I've seen it make someone shut up publicly then become malicious in private, but I've never seen it make someone become more understanding. The only thing that has accomplished that is friendship with those who are different from them and a lot of grace to lead people down the road of understanding and sensitivity.
I do understand being angry, and that when you are you want to be even more. The thing is, it just never accomplishes what it truly desires. It never restores or truly defends that which was threatened. You'll find yourself having far less enemies in the world when you stop wanting to have them. People can be led to your side. With all the progress that has been made in the world so far, I'm surprised so many don't realize this when interacting with countries further behind in international relations, such as Korea.
currently experiencing second hand embarrassment while reading your comments
DeleteI see blackface as racist. I see racism as a great evil that I will most likely battle for the rest of my life, but I will always fight. Always.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am angry. I’m angry that Boom was in blackface, but it’s not a hateful angry. My anger is a righteous fury that wishes to bring about change, but is frustrated by those that stand in my way. (Some of the worse offenders imo are the people that see race issues as no big deal or wish to disguise racism as ignorance.)
After reading some of the comments here and on other sites it is clear that not everyone is aware of what blackface has been used to do in the past and is still being used to do in the present.
I hope that people who were truly unaware of what blackface is will look it up. I hope it makes them angry. I hope that angry fuels them and drives them to talk about, write about, SING about if they want. Just don’t brush is off. Don’t just ignore it.
Here’s a place to start: http://black-face.com
Change happens slowly... even if only one person walks away from this with a new view point, I'll be happy.
According to that website, which coon stereotype was he putting on Stevie Wonder?
ReplyDelete-Many in the black community would say he was mocking Stevie for laughs.
-Many Koreans would say they thought he was being silly by pretending to be Stevie.
These are two interpretations, and the history of blackface doesn't mean the first one is automatically the case. To answer whether or not it is, it seems reasonable to ask the question: Would people think less of Stevie because they saw this? I don't know the answer to that question. I know that my esteem for him hasn't been depreciated, but I don't know about the Koreans who saw the show.
Again, I'm not saying that it wouldn't remind many people of the whole history of blackface and be hurtful to those affected by it. I'm just not seeing how the collective attitude of that history can be assumed upon Boom in this case, or how seeing paint on someone's face makes people automatically think less of a race. It seems like the accompanying stereotyping is what does the damage.
My perspective would be vastly different if he were just trying to be "a black guy" rather than specifically Stevie Wonder. I do see how it would give a racist the opportunity to revel in their racism, yet whether or not the impersonation was inherently racist in itself along the lines of a stereotyping history depends on a couple factors that can't be observed from a handful of pictures.
I think we need more information, more evidence to make that call. That's all I'm saying. I'm fine with anyone seeing it and responding with simply "Please don't ever do this or support it, and ask if you don't know why."
why do you keep commenting?
ReplyDeletecan you just let others voice their opinions without shoving yours down their throats? i was really interested in seeing what people had to say, but you keeping popping up yesh
i think its racist you disagree move on
Agree with lovealone.
ReplyDeleteI have been saying it may or may not be racist. If you think I am saying it is not, you obviously haven't been reading my posts, so you shouldn't be complaining about what you didn't bother yourself with anyway.
ReplyDeleteDang, man let it gooooooooooooooooo
ReplyDelete아저씨, we get your point, now can you just shut up please, you're getting annoying
ReplyDelete^this
ReplyDeleteThank you lovealone and Anon @11:39, thank you. This was gettting crazy. My head as spinning reading it. Blackface=racist imo, no if ands or butts ^.~
@1:32 - I'm full of righteous fury too! Let's never give up, okay?! :D Peace, Love and Equality~
I like how you guys keep responding just like I do, yet apparently I am the only person pushing things. You are obviously heavily invested in making and defending your own point as well, and it is the same one over and over, so you are no different from me in that regard even if you try to act like you are different.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it is very rude, hypocritical, and pathetic to tell someone you disagree with to shut up just because you want to feel like you got the last word in and told them what's up.
Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. It is a discussion; both sides share and respond to what was said, that's how it works. You can stop it anytime you want, but you seem compelled to repeat the same over-simplified "I think it is racist" statement over and over. If it is getting tired, it is because your single point with no elaboration is getting tired.
Well Jesus Christ. A lot of you guys are no better than Boom, generalizing all of us Koreans just because of what four dumbasses did.
ReplyDeleteAnd the whole point of this blog is to allow people to express their opinions. You don't have to agree with another person's opinions, but telling someone to shut up because they don't agree with your opinions isn't what you should be doing.
I like how Ajusshi is trying to justify this and then getting mad when people tell him to stop trying to argue this isn't racist. Plenty of people have offered compelling arguments here as to why this is racist, ignorant and offensive, but please continue to weasel your way out of the hole you have dug for yourself my son.
ReplyDeleteI mean would you like them to keep doing blackface on national Korean TV? Surely something must make you curious why so many people are getting up and calling this racist if it's perfectly justifiable, right?!
Come on man. How could have this been anything other than a mockery? When you view these photos, the first thought surely can't be "oh how funny, Boom in brown facepaint pretending to be Stevie Wonder, what comedic genius!" It isn't funny in the slightest.
On the other hand, I did laugh. I laughed at how Korea can still blatantly flout another country's cultural heritage and not bat an eyelid. Because this is okay for Korea, or else they wouldn't do it.
When people say that blackface has no social/cultural meaning in Korea, I really wonder for the sake of netizens. Of COURSE it has social significance. Koreans, for the most part, tend to not be very dark people. They also usually don't have curly hair. When a Korean does the black hair, the brown face paint, it signifies that they are transforming into something different and alien to their culture. And then the fact that they use it for their entertainment should immediately ring alarm bells, as it should here.
If this was for entertainment purposes, then how can you not condemn it? Is there something inherently entertaining about people with dark skin and nappy hair, jiving around acting like a stereotypical performing coon? I liken this to a zoo, all the idols in the audience pointing and laughing at something strange and interesting, like some kind of exotic animal to be ogled at but not really taken seriously.
I don't understand what Stevie Wonder has to do with Chuseok. Unless there's a secret "Stevie's Greatest Chuseok Hits Compilation" album just lying around that nobody's ever heard of. So why dress up as him and parade around with Super Fagior on this particular occasion? What the hell does he have to do with Chuseok or Idol Athletics?!
So yeah I guess it was simple entertainment. MOCKING ENTERTAINMENT. I mean kinda a weird time and place to do a tribute to Stevie Wonder isn't it? And tributes don't involve painting yourself brown and acting like an abject retard. He could have pulled up a harpsichord and knocked out an Engrish rendition of "Superstition", THAT'S FINE.
You know what, I'm not even disappointed in Boom. I'm disappointed in the entire Korean media industry and public that continue to silently condone this sort of behavior without standing up and telling someone "hmm, maybe we could be offending an entire nation that struggled for hundreds of years to be treated as human beings instead of the white man's entertainment".
When you paint yourself a different color and use it for entertainment purposes, you are being racist. You are highlighting a physical characteristic and then asking people to discriminate based on that physical characteristic. There is nothing inherently funny about skin tone. I mean Koreans don't automatically laugh when they see other Koreans on the street. But black face is used as a form of entertainment, you paint yourself and suggest that there IS something inherently funny about black skin. It is discriminatory because blacks are being treated as a joke.
Same with yellow face. Same with white face. You are discriminating based on skin color. If you can't understand that, then I give up. It shocks me that a country that was once pillaged and raped by Japan, a country whose culture was on the verge of being destroyed and the rest assimilated into a Japanese led pan-Asian culture can't seem to grasp why blackface is offensive. The Japanese once treated that country and its people as vastly inferior to Japan's and now they go ahead and treat blacks as their own personal entertainment outlet. Sad.
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, I actually don't mind racial humor, when it's done tastefully and with an underlying social message (ala The Boondocks, Tropic Thunder). I mean sometimes we all laugh at obviously racist jokes in private or with friends because there is sometimes an uncomfortable element of truth there. I am not gonna sit on my high horse and smite down these idiots acting as if I haven't laughed at a black joke. Because I have, and I realize that I am perpetuating a vicious cycle of racism by condoning that sort of joke by laughing. The DIFFERENCE is, I understand it's racism, and I understand that we must work towards a day where people won't laugh at black jokes, Jew jokes, Asian jokes or white jokes, because there will be no joke there.
But over there, it's apparent that they don't realize it's racism. And that's called ignorance.
"Plenty of people have offered compelling arguments here as to why this is racist, ignorant and offensive, but please continue to weasel your way out of the hole you have dug for yourself my son."
ReplyDeleteIgnorant and offensive I have already affirmed myself. As for racist, the possibility is still there, and I have said that multiple times.
"I mean would you like them to keep doing blackface on national Korean TV?"
When did I say anything that demonstrated approval for this? Of course I think it is a bad idea, and have already said that several times.
"Surely something must make you curious why so many people are getting up and calling this racist if it's perfectly justifiable, right?!"
Also insinuating that I think it is justifiable, which I never did. It is far too insensitive for that. However, the thing I am taking issue with is the 100% certainty that people have that it was racist. I have already explained this in full, so I don't feel the need to do so again.
Yet, after many exchanges both here and in the chat, it would seem we have differing definitions of the word "racist" so there won't be resolution util both sides offer their definition. My definition has been clearly defined in my arguments. It is discrimination and/or degredation based on race. NOT something which may remind a person of OTHER people who did that at a DIFFERENT time, but a person who truly did so themselves.
Thus, by the definition from which I have been arguing, it is possible that Boom may not have. He may have been impersonating a celebrity with an insensitivity to the history of racist entertainment, but whether or not he was doing so with racism in his heart needs more evidence.
It would seem that many of you have a broader definition. Perhaps anything which bears similarity to racism, or could be used to satisfy racist mindsets. By that definition I would agree, but I would also have trouble with that definition, since nearly anything could then be racist, as a racist person could find opportunity in nearly anything.
It is pointless for me to go "it may or may not be" and you to go "it definitely is" over and over if we are talking about two different things. So please provide a working definition so we can verify exactly what sort of disagreement there even is. This is not a competition, it is a disagreement. We aren't against each other, but sharing and trying to understand.
"Come on man. How could have this been anything other than a mockery? When you view these photos, the first thought surely can't be "oh how funny, Boom in brown facepaint pretending to be Stevie Wonder, what comedic genius!" It isn't funny in the slightest."
ReplyDeleteWell I usually don't find impersonations funny, so I don't know how to judge that. I'm just looking at different precedents for what he did. There is one of impersonations, where you are essentially doing a miserable job of emulating someone iconic, then there is the blackface one where you are mocking according to a stereotype.
"On the other hand, I did laugh. I laughed at how Korea can still blatantly flout another country's cultural heritage and not bat an eyelid. Because this is okay for Korea, or else they wouldn't do it."
I wouldn't toss the whole country into that assumption. There may be plenty of people fighting this sort of thing and we could be unaware because we don't live there.
"When people say that blackface has no social/cultural meaning in Korea, I really wonder for the sake of netizens. Of COURSE it has social significance. Koreans, for the most part, tend to not be very dark people. They also usually don't have curly hair. When a Korean does the black hair, the brown face paint, it signifies that they are transforming into something different and alien to their culture. And then the fact that they use it for their entertainment should immediately ring alarm bells, as it should here."
As I said, the same thing is done when guys dress up as women. It isn't done to mock women, but to be silly.
"If this was for entertainment purposes, then how can you not condemn it?"
I can easily condemn the action, as there are too many issues with it. However, I cannot condemn him as a racist unless I know it was done to mock. It is inherently tied to the level of respect he and the audience has for Stevie Wonder. If they saw it as that, then it would be no different than dressing up as any other celebrity or as a woman. It is possible that it was more general though, in which case it would be racist.
"Is there something inherently entertaining about people with dark skin and nappy hair, jiving around acting like a stereotypical performing coon?"
See, here you are generalizing it to a black stereotype. As I said before, if he were just being "a black guy" then this would obviously be his intention. He would have to be going "black people look and act like this" and acting that way because he finds it funny rather than dignified.
But he didn't do that, he modeled himself after an actual person. A person who he can look at and change to look and act like, because that is what people do when they impersonate. Impersonations have a range of purposes, some of which are to be a serious homage (obviously not the case here), some of which are to mock, and some of which are to be silly.
I don't know what the intention was. I won't accuse someone of discrimination unless I know they were doing so.
"I liken this to a zoo, all the idols in the audience pointing and laughing at something strange and interesting, like some kind of exotic animal to be ogled at but not really taken seriously."
ReplyDeleteBut who would be the animal? Stevie Wonder, or Boom making a fool of himself trying to impersonate Stevie Wonder? That difference of perception is the key.
"I don't understand what Stevie Wonder has to do with Chuseok. Unless there's a secret "Stevie's Greatest Chuseok Hits Compilation" album just lying around that nobody's ever heard of. So why dress up as him and parade around with Super Fagior on this particular occasion? What the hell does he have to do with Chuseok or Idol Athletics?!"
I don't know either, but if he was chosen for something that big, then he is clearly percieved as someone iconic enough that anyone should be able to recognize who the impersonation is supposed to be. That is one sign that makes me see possibility for different intents and purposes.
"So yeah I guess it was simple entertainment. MOCKING ENTERTAINMENT. I mean kinda a weird time and place to do a tribute to Stevie Wonder isn't it? And tributes don't involve painting yourself brown and acting like an abject retard. He could have pulled up a harpsichord and knocked out an Engrish rendition of "Superstition", THAT'S FINE."
You're still only seeing the possibility of "Serious" vs "Mockery" but the "Silly" purpose of impersonations is still out there. I'm not trying to justify racism, I'm just trying to avoid slandering someone unless they meant it.
"You know what, I'm not even disappointed in Boom. I'm disappointed in the entire Korean media industry and public that continue to silently condone this sort of behavior without standing up and telling someone "hmm, maybe we could be offending an entire nation that struggled for hundreds of years to be treated as human beings instead of the white man's entertainment".
That is perfectly valid.
"When you paint yourself a different color and use it for entertainment purposes, you are being racist. You are highlighting a physical characteristic and then asking people to discriminate based on that physical characteristic. There is nothing inherently funny about skin tone."
ReplyDeleteI agree, in the generalized sense. There would be no way to do this simply saying "I'll be a black guy" without turning into a mocking characterization of a race. However, as I said before, with a specific, iconic celebrity, it may not be the case. It would still be a terrible idea because it would be terribly offensive to many, but it could be possible that the person wasn't being discriminatory.
I feel like this is the main point of disagreement. You are saying yes it definitely always is, and I am saying it is possible that someone might do it without such a mindset. I don't see a reason to go on many tangents if this is the main issue at hand.
"I mean Koreans don't automatically laugh when they see other Koreans on the street. But black face is used as a form of entertainment, you paint yourself and suggest that there IS something inherently funny about black skin. It is discriminatory because blacks are being treated as a joke.
Same with yellow face. Same with white face. You are discriminating based on skin color. If you can't understand that, then I give up."
I have seen Koreans impersonate other famous Koreans for comedic effect in exactly the same way as Boom is doing with Stevie Wonder here. That is what opens the possibility for me that it wasn't like this. That doesn't mean it was a good idea, but it may not have been generalizing things to a depiction of a race.
"It shocks me that a country that was once pillaged and raped by Japan, a country whose culture was on the verge of being destroyed and the rest assimilated into a Japanese led pan-Asian culture can't seem to grasp why blackface is offensive. The Japanese once treated that country and its people as vastly inferior to Japan's and now they go ahead and treat blacks as their own personal entertainment outlet. Sad."
Yes, that is a problem.
"The DIFFERENCE is, I understand it's racism, and I understand that we must work towards a day where people won't laugh at black jokes, Jew jokes, Asian jokes or white jokes, because there will be no joke there.
But over there, it's apparent that they don't realize it's racism. And that's called ignorance."
And ignorance isn't something to hate a person for or condemn or shame them for. That is why I don't want to throw around judgment unless I know that Boom meant it as a mockery. When someone befriends people of different races and comes to respect them, they will find the shame in their past mindsets all by themselves.
Being attacked when they didn't know how serious it can be opens opportunity for a defensive and justifying attitude. Even though this is wrong of them, it is also wrong to throw around the slander and anger that triggers it in them and then rule them out because they did try to justify themselves. If we took a calmer approach to the problem, less combative and more educational, I think it will lead to good things faster.
That is why I have been rather tenacious in this thread. I'm not looking to make excuses and get people off the hook if they have done something wrong. I am trying to get those who are offended to realize the way an ignorant person feels when they are attacked. Whether or not the attack is justified, it usually doesn't fulfill what it is trying to do. It is far better to say "I see some problems in your worldview, and I want to help you through them" rather than always looking for the next biggot to cast down.
If you are all so educated in racial issues, I suppose you may have seen American History X? Do you remember how Avery Brooks' character dealt with him? That is a good approach.
Before I read this id like to say DAMN BOB!That's like a 5 page thesis.dude!fuck!damn!
ReplyDeleteHalf of it is quoting him so you guys know what I am addressing with what statements.
ReplyDelete^ Still making yourself look like a douche I see... smh.
ReplyDeleteStill not even bothering to read my posts, I see... SMH.
ReplyDeleteAt least CombatBaby seems capable of real discussion. That is good.
Don't want to read your posts. I want you to stop posting, duh.
ReplyDelete...but then again I love that you are so defensive. Its really funny. Sad too kinda ;)
If you were confident in your agreement I don't see why you would need to be so pushy. The fact that you can't say what you think and leave it makes you look lame. (Also, it makes me want to troll you, hard.)
So on second thought please keep it coming!
"I don't see why you would need to be so pushy."
ReplyDeleteYou don't see because you aren't looking. That is also why you think I'm being pushy with an agenda rather than investigative and trying to understand the opposing views people have here.
In the meantime, I feel like CombatBaby and I have made and will further make progress in understanding each other. This is because he actually bothered to elaborate on his analysis of the incident rather than repeat a simplistic mantra of reactionary anger.
blah, blah, blah, blah.
ReplyDeleteim sure you think you look really smart and logical, but you don't you still look like a jackass with too much time on there hands
you are on fangirl status right now and its hilarious (do you refresh the page every chance you get? I do too, just to fuck with you.)
아저씨, the people here are human and therefore prone to "reactionary anger," get over yourself… Blackface makes people upset, it makes me upset. I don’t think anyone should have to apologize for venting their frustrations, this is a blog not a UN conference.
ReplyDeleteNo one here should have to defend or justify their thoughts, emotions, or beliefs to you imo. This whole site in built around bashing and attacking people, so to get all high and mighty about people calling Boom racist is ridiculous.
I understand you asking why someone feels the way they do, but there are better ways to do that then bashing someone for being overly emotional, unreasonable, or illogical. That may not have been your intention, but from reading some of your responses I can see why people are calling you out.
Now go ahead and break down everything I just said and defend yourself, but I won’t be back to read it. I think you’ve made your stance perfectly clear by now.
Be well, fellow humans, be well~
AYYe this is some fucked up shit on the real, he could have got a better make up artist , better yet ask Stevie Wonder himself he not doing shit. I swear these chinks are losing their mind. They going to steal our style then make fun of us like with the hell Korea??... So would it be cool for me to pull back my eyes put on a cheap ass wig , lighten up my skin tone?? And start singing some run devil run type shit would that be okay??? For the dumb BLACK whore who doesn't care about this problem. BITCH you are no longer black nigga get the fuck off of here because at the end of the day Koreans dont even like themselves do you expect them to accept you into there magical world of chinks and tiny dicks no!!
ReplyDeleteIf i see Rain , JYJ , or MBLAQ do some shit like this im off k pop my nigga like on the reals. Just one of there three i named nigga its going to be poppin.
who started most of these kpopist off ???? thank you American music Black to be more detailed most of these people will tell you that their influence to become what hey are and their ideas are from singers like beyonce and usher .
^
ReplyDeleteYou are coming off as an idiot.Calling people derogatory names does not solve anything just like wearing blackface,its really unnecessary.
When im in my right mind ill reply to you Ajusshi.
I get what Anon 5:52 is saying, I wouldn't have said it that way, but I agree with their overall message. Blackface is racist and its only that much more offensive because a lot of these artists claim to be huge fans of black entertainers.
ReplyDeleteIt may not be how you or I choose to communicate, but I don't think its fair to be all judgey. If that is how they feel and how they choose to express it, what's the big deal?
The "debate" that is going on here is entertaining more then anything. ^^ Ajusshi really should let it go, he's coming off the worst :( but, fight the battles you find important, I guess. I just don't think anyone is winning in wars here… This discussion could have gone better, but what can you expect from public blog ^_~
Was this a tribute to Stevie?
ReplyDeleteI don't have all the facts straight, but, if this was, why paint your face brown?
Why in the world have Boom there to begin with?
If this was a tribute, they should have gotten a singer. Like Big Bang's Taeyang, SHINee's Onew or just a freaking singer to sing one of Stevie's songs, and that's all. No need to wear a stupid wig, costume, and of course, Blackface.
I remember seeing a picture where SHINee's Minho was doing a tribute to Michael Jackson "Off the Wall" era. And they did not use Blackface for the shot. Just his clothing and pose resembled MJ.
See, that's how you do a tribute.
But I am starting to believe this wasn't a tribute. It was more for laughs than anything. Disgusting humor. How is the color of someones skin, hair texture, AND disabilities funny?
I hope someday (I will probably be dead by then) Korea, will see that Blackface is insulting, hurtful, not at all funny too majority of the people outside of the whole continent of Asia. There is a whole 'nother world out there. This goes for all Asian countries.
^this
ReplyDeleteI don't see how this could be anything other then mocking? Korea, racist no surprise... sad, but wat can you do. but the ableism is like really? Wth?
@anon Logic is not some sort of front you put on to look good, it is a perspective of realities you can't deny. If I have a problem accepting something as certain because logically I see other possibilities, I can do nothing to change that.
ReplyDeleteYet, if someone else thinks all other possibilities have been ruled out, then clearly they would be the person I should ask, right? So all I can do is describe the logical issue from my side as best as I can, and hope someone bothers to actually read it and then explain how they arrived at their conclusion rather than just tell me to accept their conclusion without understanding.
If it is possible for me to change my mind on this and agree with you, wouldn't you want me to do that? Why wouldn't you want to help the required process? I think it is because you saw something other than 100% agreement and ruled me out as an enemy. You don't really care about eliminating racism, you just want to point out bad guys and look good.
@liley I look forward to reading what causes you to rule out other possibilities. You seem 1000x more rational than these other people who aren't even bothering to read what I'm saying.
Hey, at least Stevie Wonder won't see this.
ReplyDelete^LOL
ReplyDeleteWOW! What an ignorant fool.
EVEN WITH all his effort (or lack of effort) with his wardrobe and make-up, of all the people I didn't even know he was impersonating Stevie Wonder!?!?!?!
Lammmme, dude if you gonna impersonate someone may have the possibility of getting some back-lash for this stunt, it at least make it convincing otherwise it's a fail waste of time.......
Personally, I didn't find it rasict (I'm only vaguely fimiliar with black face though, but I do understand why people are outraged and I don't blame them). Instead I just found it......kinndda lame, stupid and tasteless. I mean, it wasn't even funny....maybe they found it funny but I don't really see how. I was just like "WTF is that korean dude doing in that get-up, he looks ridiculously retarded???" <-----Or was that what they intended to get across, because it's quite offensive.
What's up with all the essays any way??? lol and of course 70% is from 아저씨 lol I understand what you're going on about but I guess for other people it's a more serious and personal matter.
Soon there will be most comments from 아저씨 on every damn post of this blog than comments from other readers.
ReplyDelete아저씨 never shuts the fuck up always got to get the last word in
ReplyDeleteits best to just have conversations around him ignore him completely and life is good the blog is good
i know. he is so fucking annoying
DeleteBlackface is racist. No need to search up dictionary definitions and start a goddamned research project.
ReplyDeleteIt's fucking racist.
^this
ReplyDeleteWas he trying to mock Stevie Wonder or black people in general??
ReplyDeleteSteve Wonder...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Ludacris has seen this shit? Maybe he can slap some sense into this idiot and regain some cred. (I would ask about Teddy Riley, but I doubt he gives a damn if don't effect his $$$$$$...)
Oh, and now that we've all had time to view the video can we declare this officially racist, offensive, and just plain wrong? Smh.