Wednesday, August 31, 2011

I'm scared for him.


Lock your doors and windows, they're coming for ya.

Rofl, why am I not surprised?


Twitter wars are always entertaining.



97 comments:

  1. What a stupid, tired argument and insult to the composers of kpop. It's not like they set up robots to make songs for them. There are creative teams involved trying to make music, dance and fashion that is enjoyable and brings people happiness. I kind of liked this guy but I didn't realize he was such an elitist dick. I expect this sort of delusion and narrow-minded attitude from critics, but from someone who makes music for a living? How does he really think he is any better?

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  2. So true ! ... i'm not totally against idols if they have at least a true talent ( having pretty legs doesn't count), and what's the point of a idols group with too many members when half of them can't even sing.

    (sorry for my english, if nobody can't understand it...)

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  3. What he's really saying:

    Yo, homie! We rappers struggle to get our sheet out errrr day but nobody be listnen cause they be listen to T-ara's Roly Poly and sheet. Fuck dat, man. I'm mad street, up here in Korea, son. They manufacture, brah...we dah real thang, we the real thang. Not pretended we black at all, son. They make more money den us, pshhhhhhhhhhhh...what do they have that we don't have. TITS! ASS! a Vagoo! Pshhhh listen to hip hop, yo...who cares what you like, just listen to hip hop, homie.

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  4. He's just mad cause he's not making as much money as those 'manufactured' idols. And yes, I'm interpreting respect as money because if he was looking for actual respect he wouldn't be pouring out his emotions on twitter and would instead be doing shit that actually commends respect.

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  5. ^^^^ what 4:17 said .

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  6. What he's saying is true.
    But won't happen. Kpop is put together like a puzzle. Get decent looking male or females who can sing or can't but we'll train them so they can. Train them for years on how to talk, mc, dance, sing, and be an idol. Give them styles, music, everything and press go. You can't deny it, lol how many idols said they were casted off the street? Lizzy did just recently in HT. How many were models them boom out of no where were in a group? Child actors then magically singers?
    Yes some have individual talent but what he is saying is that many independent Hip hop, or just independent artist in Korea in general deserve more than what they are getting because they don't have a huge money machine behind them, and are basically creating their music from the ground up (almost),with their own style and creativity. Not givin a song from another foreign artist that was bought changed around a bit, and had some nonsense lyrics put to it.

    Because they don't look like models and didn't have years of training but already had the skill. They don't want to give up their selves to become an "idol" and basically become what Jay said "puppets" because that's what they are. They have a contract that says, your going to sing this, dance to this, wear this, when and where we say or we can sue you.......

    Basically.

    That soundsssss like control to me. But there are so many people that listen to Kpop not because of the music is because they look GOT DAMN HOT. Seriously, stop denying it. If pussy cat dolls looked like Snsd people would lost their shit in America. Rappers, or independent artist do struggle their asses off because they don't have a huge label backing them even though their music is just as good if not better.

    See in America we have sooooo many ways to get known, youtube, facebook, twitter, numerous nuuuuuuuuuumerous tv stations 50 states blah blah. Their country is the size of Oregon or something.... lol so a couple of tv stations, couple of avenues and all of those are controlled by manufactured groups by companies for money.

    They are possibly working wayyyyyy harder than idols because idols are givin a schedule and said go follow this. But mentally not physically.

    Independent artist have to possibly set up their own make arrangements and be hands on on their career which takes mental creativity and skill.

    You know why so many idols are fainting and passing out? Because the physical tolls of singing and dancing when and where you are told at any time would break down anyone. They aren't working hard because they want to, but have too or else.

    You can only work a slave for so long until they run out a gas. But i guess then you give them an IV and send them back to work.... Gotta get that moneyyyyyyy.

    But like i said it won't happen cause this is how things are sooooo dok might as well shut the hell up and keep doing you, haha.

    People want what they want, may not always be right but if they want it, they wantssssssss it meaning..... Hot kpop bodies.

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  7. I like him but he seems pressed

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  8. 1) How is an idol's hard work to become skilled less meaningful or valuable just because they had teachers? Isn't that how we learn things? From people more experienced who teach us? Don't rappers learn how to rap from other rappers? So rapping teachers are more dignified because they don't work for an idol agency when they teach? Why?

    2) Rappers make their own music from the ground up, but how is this not the case with composers of kpop? Either they have people like sweetune who compose things faaar more musically intricate and challenging than the beats these rappers sample, or you have people like SM buying songs from people just like these rappers who made a song from the ground up good enough to get SM's attention.

    3) What about people in theater? It is exactly the same as kpop. You have one team that composes the music, one team that choreographs the dance, one team that styles the outfits, one team that sets up the stage, and a team of performers who do it. Same for movies. Are those not valid art forms because they are "manufactured"? How is the collaborative creative effort of all those people less than a rapper putting some words to a beat he sampled off old records?

    4) I know idols are overworked, but that competition isn't just from the agencies. I've seen plenty of idols talking about how they look at other idols working so hard and they want to do even better, so they work even when they are allowed a rest time. It is a fierce competition mindset, and they knew they were getting into it when they signed up. Their hard work shouldn't be discounted just because they have a contract behind it. The fact they stick to it should be commended because I'm sure a lot of rappers would break contract and cry to mom about how hard it was.

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  9. 4:55 Exactly!!! Kinda sad if you really think about it but still. I'd rather have control over my -ish than be told what to do all of the time. This guy has a point though, but like 4:55 said that dream just isn't going to happen because Kpop feeds people in every avenue.

    He should have just said they should get more respect like kpop stars, not more than cause now he just startin' ish.

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  10. I believe they all deserve the same amount of respect but from my knowledge, kpop artists don't get that much respect in comparison to other genre artists in Korea so what he wants is more popularity....He's not looking for respect but for popularity, he has that confused.....

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  11. By respect, maybe he means attention and recognition, and not necessarily money. In countries like Korea, there are still people (even professional singers and music critics) who look down on Hip Hop because it is mainly rapping and not singing. And the music is "just beats" and not some really great melody or harmony of instruments. (Don't get me wrong, I love my hip hop artists!) And it doesn't seem like he's dissing kpop composers at all. Just the idol groups for their manufacturedness, which everyone agrees it's true, right? And mainly, those actors in theater, they act well. At least, the good ones do. But these idol singers, 85% of the groups cannot sing. That's the fact. In a group of 4 or 5, you will have maybe 1 or 2 singers that sing well or at least decently. The other two are there for their face and body and other non-music related stuff. In that way, they are not music artists...

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  12. 아저씨 you sound pressed
    face it, idols can't sing for shit, they're only there because they look nice and nothing else

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  13. But don't underground artists get more respect anyway?

    K-pop artists do NOT get much respect for their artistic contribution. They're there to be pretty, dance, carry a note, and entertain us. It goes without saying that this is manufactured. Whoever thought otherwise needs to look closer at what makes k-pop. It's more about Korea needing more outlets for non-idol artists to get known.

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  14. ^5:56 But do those idols not work as hard as other artists? It's not like they sit around all day and then just do their 3-4/week performances. They get a break when they go to sleep. That's it usually, especially during promotion periods.

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  15. Yes, I am pressed when it comes to music. It is my main passion in life and those of many of my friends and family. I'm saying that kpop is far more than the idols themselves. They work extremely hard to "just look good" and the efforts of many other people are involved as well. This guy is shitting on a whole creative industry and the reasoning behind his justification for doing so shits on two additional industries. He is insulting thousands of people and all their hard work and passion for what they do.

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  16. I actually respect Dumbfoundead a lot, but his music sometimes gets advertised on Allkpop. This just sounds like he's biting the hand that feeds him.

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  17. LOL, you called it.

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  18. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  19. the f? are we still doubting idols' talent? the fact is at least one idol from each group is really talented, and if you are a top group, there are probably more than one, I love dumbfoundead, but this is really ignorant, and I'm surprised it's coming from him, cause he seemed classy.

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  20. LMAO *grabs popcorn*
    He sounds whiny tho

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  21. I like kpop but acknowledge and fully accept that its music is strictly extrinsic/superficial. Ajeosshi, you sound butthurt as fuck. Fact is, Kpop dominates the entire Korean music industry and most people would immediately associate Korean music with catchy hooks, repetitive choruses et cetera.

    These hip-hop artists truly put their hearts and souls into their music, not so much to reap recognition but for the true love of it. Especially in a country as oppressive as Korea, it's refreshing to see music that breaks boundaries and sidesteps conformity.

    Kpop on the other hand is manufactured to the tee. Technically, these idols work hard but that doesn't change the fact that they are puppets for delivering sexist, hypocritical messages that ironically contrast their 'idol' labels. Grow up brah.

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  22. ^word.

    can someone tell me why ajosshi is a writer on this blog again? truth hurts, son.

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  23. I wonder if he went back and read this and realized that he sounds like a whiny little bitch.

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  24. Insulting me while sidestepping my arguments doesn't make you seem like you know what you're talking about. The people who compose kpop love music, too. You're being incredibly narrowminded, and throwing around "manufactured" like some magic word doesn't win the argument for you. Try coming up with some explanations rather than just completely disregarding the artistic merit of anyone but your beloved hiphop artists.

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  25. 아저씨, thank you for shutting down these morons. That is all.

    p.s. I LOVE YOU.

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  26. ^^ Completely agree! Ahjussi is fkin awesome, cause he's not just some retard, he knows how to argue!

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  27. I don't know why he bothers even writing that. If you come the k-pop looking for "creativity and Originality" then too friken bad. Not all of then are like that, we just have to deal with it. If you have a problem then oh well, go cry your river somewhere else.

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  28. I don't think that making fun of something that Sooo many people love was a very professional move on his part...
    It definitely lost him alot of respect from alot of people... including me.

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  29. i am dumbfounded by dumbfoundead's dumb remark

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  30. Why are yous all so butthurt up in this thread, homies?

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  31. To be honest really, if I had a choice to listen to dumb or kpop, I rather listen to dumb.

    Ive been listening to dumb for more then a year already, his music > kpop, well....the wannabe hiphop artist anyways....you know what family I am talking about, and if you are mad over his comments or mines, that shows how mad you are at a persons OPINION.....learn to live with it.

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  32. Most of SM artists music is bought from European composers and are covers of other obscure songs. So much for creativity and originality.

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  33. ^
    Yup me too.He is right in every sense of the word.Kpop is manufactured and really silly and that is part of the appeal at first,then you realise that there really is nothing more.

    Kpop offers nothing but just that manufactured,robotic,repetitive shit all the time that we just lap up,some without question and others with a sense of discontentment,but we still accept it.

    Ajusshi there maybe "creative teams" involved in those processes but when most of the products produced are pure shit then those 'creative teams' need to go back to the drawing board and try again.

    "He is insulting thousands of people and all their hard work and passion for what they do."

    When someone makes shitty music or shitty anything,their passion for what they do does not nullify the fact that what they've come out with is shit.Passion and quality of work do not go hand in hand.

    The word manufactured means:"To make or process a raw material into a finished product"

    So no we're not just throwing the word around,it is being used because it best describes idols and the music they make.

    "Technically, these idols work hard but that doesn't change the fact that they are puppets for delivering sexist, hypocritical messages that ironically contrast their 'idol' labels."

    ^
    Spitting truth.

    I dont agree with Jonathan because he is a hiphop artist and Im a hiphop fan but I agree with him because generally,kpop idols get far to much attention for mediocre work and people not just in the hiphop community in SK but musicians that deliver good quality work aren't being noticed or given their due props.

    With all that said,will I ditch kpop and stop listening because at the moment its so stagnant?No probably not.

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  34. The maybe in my 3rd paragraph is supposed to be 2 words.and in the first paragraph i was agreeing with Rotaryknight.

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  35. Why is everyone shitting on Ajusshi when he brings up salient points that make sense? o.0

    And why are people dissing SM's creativity (or lackof)? Was that Ajusshi's point? He mentions that k-pop songs are either written from scratch by composers and producers, or otherwise bought from non-Korean sources. Bought. All the people in the creative process have put in effort and time into making that song and have been paid duly. Do they deserve less respect just because the music is full of hooks?

    Also, about the hip-hop-artists-true-love thing - then dumfoundead should really stfu and just keep making music the way he likes it and wants it to be.

    Pop music doesn't mean shit music pulled out of a hat. Fucking elitists.

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  36. "What a stupid, tired argument and insult to the composers of kpop."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52wgsDbbJ2Y

    damn, this is like some lou reed level shit!

    the people behind kpop are out to make a quick buck with the least amount of effort. every word an idol uses, every tone and gesture is manufactured. they are products and are marketed to the very demographics defending them here

    now i dont really listen to dumb or hip hop, but can you seriously listen to this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvX-eYO1UKM or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdhIhPick_Q

    and think that idols are anywhere near the same level as an actual artist/singer-songwriter?

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  37. The word manufactured means:"To make or process a raw material into a finished product"

    Then every musical piece ever made is manufactured. ESPECIALLY hiphop which is founded on sampling other recordings.

    All you guys are continuing to do is simply disregard what kpop composers do. That first video guy posted contains way more actual composition than most hiphop artists ever do. Have they ever tried to write a melody in their lives? Let alone a musical piece with a dozen instruments? If you think it's so easy and mindless, why don't you try it yourself?

    I come from a musical family and I have been making music for 14 years. I am very familiar with the entire process in pretty much any genre you can think of and went to school for it. I have worked in it all, worked with people from them all. Folk songwriters, jazz musicians, classical style composers, theater professionals, hiphop artists, traditional irish and european, hard rock, mexican, bluegrass, etc.

    The fact is, when you love music enough to make it your career, it saturates your entire life. It becomes like breathing to you, and it has a wide range of possible expressions and purposes. As a songwriter myself, I can tell you that it is easy as shit to spill out a couple thousand words about your life and stuggles. You like talking about yourself, right? Everyone does. Now just make it rhyme. BOOM! You're doing hiphop.

    I don't say that to discredit all hiphop, as some of it has really important messages that speak to society, but a lot of what you guys seem to praise is simpler than you seem to think, and a lot of what you disregard compositionally is a lot harder than you think. However all of this is based on a single false mindset you are holding, which is that all music must have a deep meaning and purpose to be good.

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  38. You see, music plays many different roles in life. Sometimes it will be personal and heart-rending, but other times it is just to have fun. John Williams is a brilliant composer, yet most of his work has been to make action movies more powerful to watch. That's it, no deeper meaning. But that is okay, and dignified. Why? Because aside from personal expressions, music is also simply to bring something beautiful to our ears.

    Pop music, not just kpop but all pop music, has always been for entertainment purposes. It is to make a nice tune that you can listen to in order to being some fun and excitement to life. That is the nature of the genre. Because of this, the lyrics usually aren't very deep, but deal with common pleasant things we experience in life. That doesn't make it bad, because sometimes we humans are kind of shallow like that. It is a part of life and it is beautiful.

    If you get over that and pay attention to the music, it is very catchy and enjoyable. If you know more about genre elements and trends of music, you'll be able to recognize what regions, decades, and trends composers are pulling from and where they are taking them. In these respects, kpop is being far more experimental than pop music anywhere else except france.

    You say it is shit, but it is exploding in popularity around the world in countries where the people listening don't even understand a single word of what they are saying. You know what that tells me? That a lot of it is good music. It is music that is serving the purposes for which hundreds of thousands of people want their music to serve.

    What kind of restraints are you putting on the role of music in your life? Does it have to be cynical? Does it have to be personal? Does the person singing it have to be the person who wrote it? Does the person who wrote it have to have a career in something other than getting paid to write good music?

    I really wonder, because you keep mentioning all these different things about the way kpop is made that mean nothing when it comes to whether or not the product which was made is good or not. Why are you letting some bizarre set of principles you imagined in your head keep you from enjoying something? Why can't you judge it for the product that it is rather than where it came from and how it was put together or the reasons why it was?

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  39. Ajusshi annoys me, he should stop arguing and whining in the comment section, he is just acting like this kpop fangirl this blog is supposed to be making fun of.

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  40. No, he's making valid arguments against pieces of shit like you, and when you can't argue back, you just cry about him.

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  41. Of course music as a whole is manufacturated, not only kpop, but people can't deny the fact that most kpop songs suck.
    You don't need to be a genius to write lyrics such as "Oppa oppa idaeroneun NoNoNoNo Tell me boy boy love it it it it it ah! Oh Oh Oh ppareul saranghae. Ah ah ah ah manhi manhihae.", "(Woo uh Woo uh) Electronic Manic Supersonic Bionic Energy Uh uh uh uh Hurricane Uh uh Venus Uh uh uh uh Hurricane Uh uh Venus", "So elastic fantastic fantastic fantastic fantastic elastic elastic elastic elastic", "Let me seeya LaLaLaLa Love me hey YaYaYaYa Shubidubi ShaLaLaLaLa uri duri YaYaYaYa Let me seeya LaLaLaLa Love me hey YaYaYaYa Shubidub Su Supa Nova", "Because I naughty naughty !" etc.
    And most kpop songs are also very simplistic, with the same chord progression throughout most or all of the song, which isn't necessarily a bad thing (after all, some of the most epic songs ever follow this kind of pattern), but add in the autotune, the "special sound effects", the not-so-great vocals etc., and the song soon turns into a total and all over the place mess. Sure the songs are catchy, but we can't say they are very elaborated and they often end up sounding more or less identical.
    Rap songs' beats must be quite simple too, but at least most of their lyrics are meaningful and are inspired by the rapper's life, his experiences or his percetiong of things etc., which adds more soul and sense to the song.

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  42. You know what other pop music was put together by agency composers, based on hooks, played by studio musicians, had simplistic love song lyrics, including plenty of nonsense syllables for fun, sung by cherry-picked performers and used gimmicky state-of-the-art recording effects? Motown Records.

    Of course, it started before then, but people here are more likely to recognize that name than the record labels and performers before them. The point is that this IS the pop music genre. The foundation, the defining elements, the culmination of it's evolution over the decades.

    I'm not discrediting rappers or trying to claim that pop music has more meaning than it does, or saying that a deeper meaning to music is worthless. What I'm saying is that different types of music play different roles in life. People are trying to discredit kpop and call it low-quality for the nature of the role it is playing and how it is put together.

    If you just don't like a lot of newer kpop songs, just say that. Don't act like there is something wrong with the whole process when the nature of its creation is to make something of pleasing nature and quality to a large audience, one which is obviously being successfully quite pleased with the product worldwide.

    You could put Shakespeare in National Geographic and say it is better, but the fact is that it is for an entirely different purpose than the cultural journalism articles in that magazine. People will read what they want to read and judge its quality based on how it fulfills its own determined purposes.

    The same goes for the great variety of music that is available to listen to. People don't always want the deepest or most heartfelt thing out there, and music shouldn't deserve more or less respect (in this case, clearly meaning popularity) because of these differences of purpose in their creation.

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  43. ^^ Im sorry, but 아저씨 explained that already.

    He rules and makes YOU seem the ones who are just whining like idiots.

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  44. All kinds of music are manufactured, but KPop is even more manufactured because most idols don't have a say when it comes to the process of creating their own songs and albums. The company takes all the decisions and idols have to follow and obey orders even if they disagree and/or dislike it. Some idols don't even enjoy singing their own songs (e.g. : SNSD's Taeyeon hates singing "cute" songs such as Gee etc.). Usually, even if singers/rappers don't only make music for the sake of making music but also as a way to earn their lives and even if not all of them compose/write lyrics, they are at least involved in their own careers and chose the people they want to work with, the song they want to sing, what they want to sing about etc., but it's not the case for most idol groups. It makes a lot of these groups look and sound like robots cuz even if they can dance, look good, and some of them are pretty good singers, they don't always feel what they're singing about. They are just doing what their companies want them to do.

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  45. http://seoulbeats.com/2011/08/aegyo-oppas-and-dirty-old-men/

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  46. Music preference is different for pretty much everybody..
    I like Kpop because of catchy-ass songs, awesome-ass dancing, and good looking idols..
    I pretty much don't give a shit about where the song comes from, if it has a deeper meaning, or what the lyrics say... Because I can't understand Korean anyways.
    Hip Hop just isn't my thing because I don't find it all that appealing. Just listen to what you like and there's no reason for you to try and discredit other genres for this or that reason.

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  47. if all of you arguing with 아저씨 hate k-pop so much because it is so manufactured and terrible then why are you on this blog? you obviously read kpop forums and this blog even states that they hate fan girls not kpop itself. He is actually bringing up valid reasons not just being delusional and saying that "KPOP ARTIST X IS AMAZING BECAUSE HE IS THE BESTEST EVER AND YOUR BIAS SUCKS BECAUSE HE IS XYZ".

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  48. ^
    So people who are agreeing with dumbfoundead are arguing by bringing their points across and Ajussi is bringing "valid reasons" just because he is defending kpop.Thats one-sided don't you think?

    We're all bringing across our viewpoints about what he said.Ajussi opposes it and I,for the most part,agree with him,dumbfoundead that is.

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  49. @12:19
    It may make no difference to the taste of your eggs but knowing that they come from cage-free chickens is enough to make all the difference for alot of people.

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  50. I fail to see the reason why hippity hoppity artists deserve more respect.
    You wrote/composed your own songs? Your music has a deeper meaning? Good for you. Your songs still suck.

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  51. How many Kpop idols actually get any respect? Hiphop artists are more respected. If he meant adoration or love, yeah, I could see DFD's point to an extent, but not about respect.

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  52. ^that's a mistake on dumb's half.

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  53. Well k-pop is manufactured, there's no denying that. A company pulls together a bunch of different aspects from a bunch of different teams to produce a marketable product. You take some attractive group members to front it, train them in singing, dancing etc. But the part I find most fascinating about k-pop is the way personalities and images are tailored too:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW-H8a-4cWg

    See the miming bit? That's Teen Top practicing their variety show reactions. It's amazing how much goes into them, in many cases k-pop is more abut the personalities (or the personalities that their companies allow them to project) than the music, for example, I love T-ara despite the fact that they lipsynch more than they need to and put out a lot of shitty songs. K-pop is designed to to appeal to the lowest common denominator (I don't mean this in a derogatory way) and I can understand why someone who seems their creation as an artistic representation of their own thoughts and feeling would be unhappy about their passion being reduced to a formula and that formula generally being more successful than they can hope to be.

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  54. I'm not saying there is a problem with arguing with him, I am mostly addressing the fact that most of the people responding to him are saying they hate k-pop so much and it really just makes no sense.

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  55. "I can understand why someone who sees their creation as an artistic representation of their own thoughts and feeling would be unhappy about their passion being reduced to a formula and that formula generally being more successful than they can hope to be. "

    sums it up, really. though ofc nobody can seriously blame the formula-users, since it works so well.

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  56. He probably heard Stellar's debut song and typed that Tweet. Honestly, the rookie groups these days are jaw-droppingly terrible. K-pop itself is devolving into this big pile of shit in which only a few select groups have managed to steer clear of.

    So yes. Most of K-pop is pretty much "whack" and idols are 100% manufactured. From their faces to their clothes to their songs, everything about them is attributed to the work of the people behind the scenes.

    K-pop fans are overreacting, as if they didn't know how fake their idols' images really are...

    Oh wait.

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  57. He sounds whiny as fuck. Yeah khiphop artists need respect or recognition, but so does every other artists out there. They ALL have to work their ass' off, some of them sleep 1-3max hours a day JUST to please their fans, but all this douche can do is whine and complain. And is he really using "manufactured" as a reason people shouldn't respect idols? He needs to grow the fuck up and stop bitching and DO something about it. & that was totally a blow to his so called friend Jay Park... hahahahaaaaaaaa

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  58. "You say it is shit, but it is exploding in popularity around the world in countries where the people listening don't even understand a single word of what they are saying. You know what that tells me? That a lot of it is good music. It is music that is serving the purposes for which hundreds of thousands of people want their music to serve."

    i never posted b4 so here's my 2 cents.
    stop being so butt hurt and accept the facts kpop music and most pop music is pure shit and thats a fact. u can sum up kpop with t*ara's ya ya ya, stupid song for stupid ppl around the globe, reminds me of fucking soulja boy and rebbeca black, most songs by the biggest names in kpop are on that same level if u cant accept that my friend you are a silly fanboy. and stop listening to Hippop and swag rap moron and actually listen to rap music, u have been working 14 years in music you say? moron wtf have u been doing?

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  59. "I really wonder, because you keep mentioning all these different things about the way kpop is made that mean nothing when it comes to whether or not the product which was made is good or not. Why are you letting some bizarre set of principles you imagined in your head keep you from enjoying something? Why can't you judge it for the product that it is rather than where it came from and how it was put together or the reasons why it was?"

    and its because shitty arguments such as the wall of text you posted is that holywood keeps pumping dumb movies and morons keep flocking to see em.

    hell michael bay its calling you right now thanking you for your undying support.

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  60. "kpop music and most pop music is pure shit and thats a fact"

    Wow... I just... thank you. That was so enlightening. I never expected to read something of such profound insight on here. You have changed my life.

    "shitty argument"

    Amazing refutation there. You really showed me.

    P.S. I think you missed the part where I said "judge it for the product that it is" and assumed that I meant "ignore whether or not it sucks"

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  61. He never said that k=pop was shit, he said k-pop artists don't deserve as much respect and he's probably right. the "artists" are good-looking girls and boys who are plucked off the street and played like marionettes, their looks, skills and personalities are the product of a company that has decided it wants to put together a group with a specific image, the "artists" have little to no input and the finished product doesn't reflect their tastes.
    For example, there are many cases of SNSD members stating that they found their earlier cute image hard to deal with because it didn't mesh with their personal styles, I vaguely remember instancesof other groups saying similar things.
    Noone's claiming K-pop artists don't work hard but it can't be fun when you're collapsing from fatigue and at that point I don't think "they're doing it for the fans".
    K-pop is the equivalent of a summer action blockbuster or generic rom-com, I enjoyed Thor as much as the next guy, but when you start claiming that's it's a meaningful piece of art or one of the best films of all time, I lose respect for you as a person.

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  62. "K-pop is the equivalent of a summer action blockbuster or generic rom-com, I enjoyed Thor as much as the next guy, but when you start claiming that's it's a meaningful piece of art or one of the best films of all time, I lose respect for you as a person."

    ^
    This so fucking much.

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  63. *puts half eaten bowl of popcorn down*

    "K-pop is the equivalent of a summer action blockbuster or generic rom-com, I enjoyed Thor as much as the next guy, but when you start claiming that's it's a meaningful piece of art or one of the best films of all time, I lose respect for you as a person."

    ^x2

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  64. ^Sums up the whole thing perfectly!

    Oh, and 아저씨 please get over yourself, thanks!

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  65. "but when you start claiming that's it's a meaningful piece of art or one of the best films of all time, I lose respect for you as a person."

    nobody's claiming that, other than crazed fangirls.

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  66. ^You're a very touchy person, you need to stop taking every disagreement with your viewpoint as a personal attack, I really hope you're one of the writers being dropped. I don't mean to be malicious but your contributions only serve to drag the site down.

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  67. Why do you assume my sarcasm denotes feeling personally attacked? I was making fun of how everyone was going "^yes" as if that validated what he said, when in reality, what he said was a strawman argument (a strawman is when you make up a point that nobody stated and then refute it)

    Merely acting like someone made a stupid claim, as @2:33 did with their film analogy, does not mean that they did.

    Ignoring who they are addressing also doesn't make you correct (@2:33 acted like I was referring to dumbfoundead when I clearly quoted @12:07 who had addressed me)

    And when people do silly things like this, a few other people agreeing with what they said ("^x2") does not make it relevant to the discussion taking place.

    You see, there is this beautiful thing about truth, and it's that it is not democratic. Even if you have 100 people who disagree with one guy, if that one guy is correct, the others don't change that. This is why I'm not offended when you guy dodge my arguments and bitch about me, because your claims have no affect on what I actually said.

    Now, if you were to cease making things up and actually deal with the points and questions that I brought up, you might get somewhere. If you did, and it turns out I was wrong, then what will have happened? I would have found a more accurate perspective and gained something. I would be happy.

    This is why I stick to these arguments, because maybe someone (even people just reading, not posting) will learn that knowledge is not a competition. There doesn't have to be a loser, because being wrong doesn't mean that you lose, it means you have an opportunity to learn. I blame modern teaching and testing methods for making people feel to the contrary.

    If you guys want to think that it is pathetic to celebrate and enforce the mutual pursuit of knowledge over combative broadcasting of feelings, go ahead. I just hope you realize that doing so is the only way to really lose in life.

    Sorry to bring down your circlejerk of hating on kpop artists. I'll consider toning down my realistic views on the role of art in society and how people enjoy it in different ways.

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  68. He thinks he is better because he's making art as far as he's concerned. K-pop "artists" aren't the people who make the music, or come up with the images, they're just an attractive face, however the success they get is associated with them, most people probably couldn't tell me who wrote T-ara's "Roly Poly" offhand, let alone who designed their costumes for their various performances or who recorded and editted their videos.
    K-pop is as manufactured as it gets which is the twitter fellow's point, someone who starts off making and rapping to beats they've made on their laptop,grinding away until they manage to turn that into some sort of career probably does deserve more respect than a group composed of kids plucked off the the street and treated as an investment by some company before they stick them into "Badboy group project 12".

    Do you think there person who wrote "Hug Me Once" considers it their magnum opus? In many cases the writers of pop songs have their own personal projects, they write the catchy stuff, that probably means far less to them, as a way of using their skills to fund their lives and their art.

    You've sort of zeroed in on a single statement at the end which really had little to do with this argument, I've seen people elsewhere make the "k-pop is the only real music" but the meaningful art bit is more relevant to the current discussion.

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoy idols and I enjoy k-pop but pop has always referred to catchy, throwaway music made to appeal to the widest base possible in order to make the most money possible.

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  69. HOLY. CRAP. dumbfoundead says one freaking sentence on how he thinks hip hop artists deserve more recognition/respect than k-pop idols, and all of a sudden he hates kpop, is whiny, complains too much, and is ignorant? >_>

    and seriously, he was just talking about artists themselves as you can see by the fact that he uses the term "KPOP ARTISTS." so all this "composers work from bottom up" and BLABLABLABLABLABLABLA is completely invalid against dumbfoundead.
    we're not in a freaking high school english class. so stop trying to analyze into the 50 different layers in the 18 words he has.

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  70. @ahjussi he NEVER FREAKING SAID ANYTHING about how kpop sucks because they learn their skills from others in the company. so all this about "How is an idol's hard work to become skilled less meaningful or valuable just because they had teachers?" doesn't have much to do with what he said. and all that "hard work" doesn't really amount to much considering they all still suck at singing, dancing, and rapping. and THAT'S why hip hip artist deserve more recognition. because THEY'RE MORE TALENTED.

    and then you're "how is this not the case with composers of kpop?" about working from the ground up? READ HIS TWEET. "k-pop artists", by THAT he means the idols. understand? hip-hop artists DO start from ground up, while idols have their whole company to back them up. seriously, it's what pisses me off most. "THEY'RE FROM SM SO I LOVE THEM!" so it's a lot easier for k-pop artists to gain recognition than it is for people like dumbfoundead, etc.

    "3) What about people in theater? It is exactly the same as kpop. You have one team that composes the music, one team that choreographs the dance, one team that styles the outfits, one team that sets up the stage, and a team of performers who do it. Same for movies. Are those not valid art forms because they are "manufactured"? How is the collaborative creative effort of all those people less than a rapper putting some words to a beat he sampled off old records?"
    ^yeah what you said makes sense, except people in theatre aren't expected to write the play, direct the play, make the costumes, and act in the play all at the same time. however, musicians ARE. at least, they WERE. you don't see groups like Epik High buying their songs. and also, he's just saying "i'm better than k-pop artists because i can write my song and perform it too." something most k-idols can't say.

    and kay, it's hard being a trainee in a company. but it's just as hard being a rapper trying to make it big. so dont try to make it sound like hip hop artists have it sooo easy. and once again, they can work till their heads fall off, if they're not talented, THEY'RE NOT TALENTED.

    happy now, ahjussi? i completely disagree with everything you say, and i actually argued w/ your points. ><

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  71. ^x2

    Oope I did it again!

    Why write an essay when I can just wait for someone to write mte and just agree? ^^

    Thanks Anon @5:18! Oh, and fuck off Ahjussi!

    xoxo smiley face lol giggles xoxo

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  72. ...I like A-TEAM, the girl rapper has a nice voice :D

    But anyway, everyone has a different view point of what is good and bad. Some people, like ahjussi, seem to love music as a whole and are passionate about it.
    I fucking love electronica, but i hate most rnb songs, doesn't mean rnb is shit, other people can like it, it's just not for me. just the same when someone tells me capsule is shit, i say "Well, i like it, soo :D"

    People should calm the fuck down as well.

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  73. In my opinion, he had no right to say that. Just because most idols don't write their own music or composes their own stuff, doesn't give him the right to put down an entire music genre. Saying that Kpop is all manufactured is like stereotyping all Kpop's artists/composers/etc. as dolls out of a factory when there are some damn talented idols and producers out there like Soyeon, Luna, Chanmi, Shinsadong Tiger, Brave Brothers, etc.

    Disclaimer: This is my opinion and my opinion only.

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  74. @Anon 11:55

    Idols are "dolls of a factory". Idols are basically produced by the same formula: audition a bunch of young people, pick a few people that would fit well into a group, train them to be the all-around entertainer, put them into a group and debut them. I'm sure there are some talented composers and idols, but this is an industry where looks and a catchy song matter more than actual talent. So, whatever talent these people have is not really being fully utilized. At the end of the day, idols are products.

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  75. @5:15

    My post @5:14 was obviously in response to anon@4:55. You probably should have taken time to notice that I had already responded to dumbfoundead's comment before that post so the new arguments were clearly for someone other than him.

    As for your other objections...

    "hip-hop artists DO start from ground up, while idols have their whole company to back them up"

    This is bullshit. You find me one rapper talking about how they figured out how to produce hip-hop tracks all on their own without any help from people who were already doing it. We all learn from someone. Whether it's an agency or not-legally-affiliated mentors doesn't make a difference.

    "except people in theatre aren't expected to write the play, direct the play, make the costumes, and act in the play all at the same time. however, musicians ARE. at least, they WERE"

    Since when? 1800s back-country America? You are either terribly ignorant or you are only counting small-time music performers. Big acts have been primarily collaborative creative efforts for a looong time. You know why? Because music performed on nationally-honored stage started out that way with classical music. Your personal expectations don't change the dignity of a multi-century tradition of musical performance.

    "he's just saying "i'm better than k-pop artists because i can write my song and perform it too." something most k-idols can't say."

    And I was saying that it's a stupid notion because idols aren't even trying to do that, they are playing an entirely different game so they aren't competing with him. Kpop uses a different method for different purposes with different goals of fulfillment and thus different means of measuring what quality and success at it is. What he said is narrow-minded and elitist about the potential uses of music and what is worthy of which respects in the arts.

    Damn I'm tired of arguing this with people who obviously aren't paying attention to what I'm even saying. I'm out of this one, y'all. Go on being ignorant twats.

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  76. Wouldn’t it have been a lot easier to just say U Mad? ^This had pretty much the same effect.

    I’m glad to see you sink to name calling in the end. Good job! Way to stick it to everyone that disagrees with you. I’m sure Anon @insert time here sure feels like shit. Get over yourself and grow the fuck up.

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  77. There is a difference between someone disagreeing and someone consistently misrepresenting what I said and then trying to use that as a validation for themselves. They earned the "ignorant twat" title fair and square.

    You're not much better than them, trying to ignore the context of the statement and pretend it was about our disagreement rather than their insistence on making up false characterizations of me.

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  78. I thought you were done? Wtf?

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  79. I just love that you keep coming back here.

    Also, love that DISAGREEING (I repeat, disagreeing) with you = being an ignorant twat. lol

    Taking the high road I see. Way to keep it classy!

    Psst. Just so you know, arguments tend to lose a butt load of credibility once you resort to name calling.

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  80. how do you all not see that 아저씨's won? big sigh.

    disagreeing without basis, logic or any relevant argument IS ignorance, really.

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  81. Can we all just have fun and stop being such dicks? Thx.September 5, 2011 at 7:35 AM

    ^So did you not read anyone else comments but 아저씨's? Get off of his dick. Not everyone is going to fall in line with what 아저씨 thinks and people are going to disagree.

    He is not the only one that presented a reasonable argument. He's just the only one that is dead set on trying to shove his beliefs down everyone else’s throats.

    There are no winners here (since nothing said here has any bearing on real life), but I do see a couple of losers.

    I really wish 아저씨 would just say his piece and then peace out instead of laying into anyone that disagrees… Big sigh. The blog is so much more fun when people can say what they want without enduring one of his egoistical rants. Even bigger sigh.

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  82. I read everything. 5:18 and 3:54 tried pretty well, but they're missing on the main point I think 아저씨 is trying to bring across, which is that you can't judge music all the same.

    it's true (to me) that people who do all their music by themselves - composing, performing - do deserve great respect. hiphop or whoever, rock bands, whatever.

    but the idol groups aren't trying to do that at all. their yardstick is how catchy their songs are, alternatively how well their songs sell. if you'd like to be idealistic about it then maybe you can judge their songs on how happy people are with them. it doesn't matter one shit to most pop groups (and their audience) what musical skill or involvement they have, unless they'd like to suck it up to the elitists or play to the crowd, a la G-Dragon and his nonsense.

    to say k-hiphop artists deserve more respect that k-pop artists is like insulting Iron Man 2 for not being on the same level as Pan's Labyrinth. it's just two different things with different objectives fulfilling different needs. I can't shit on Iron Man 2 just because it's less beautiful, thought-provoking or heartbreaking - because it was entertaining, explosive, I liked the banter, it was a helluva good ride.

    now if you were to compare k-hiphop artists to EACH OTHER...now you'd be on to something relevant.

    but anyway, as many people have already said, dumbfoundead's probably complaining about lack of popularity rather than respect. which...is just lame.

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  83. Agreed. K-pop is much less original, but it sells...

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  84. @3:48 You mad that I didn't let you get in a cheap shot at me? I'm done arguing about the topic, not done defending myself from people distorting context of my statements to attack me.

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  85. If you're not here to discuss the topic at hand gtfo.

    I came here to read other peoples opinions not to see you bitch.

    At this point you're letting others get the better of you, 아저씨. Learn how take the shit you dish or leave.

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  86. I am the one who started dishing shit? Pretty sure people were throwing strawmen at me and bitching long before I strayed from topic to address it specifically.... Hmmm, yeah, it's all recorded here plain as day. If you guys don't want to talk to me, you can stop any time.

    I'm going to stick around because you guys need to learn that you can't talk/insult/demean someone into letting you shit on them freely. If you don't want someone in your life, you have to leave, not talk to them just to tell them to go away, which is self-contradicting.

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  87. But... this entire site is based on talking shit, insulting, and demeaning people... Why should it be different now? Because its directed at you? Grow up and take it like a man.

    Take a page out of akf's book: people shit on him and his site all the time and he doesn't engage he brushes it off and moves the fuck on.

    The reason people get on you is because to make it so easy. You take any disagreement personally, get defensive and go of the attack. Cool your jets. You're turning people away from the site. This place it supposed to be fun.

    If you can't have a carefree conversation in the comments section stay away and stick to writing lame articles.

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  88. "But... this entire site is based on talking shit, insulting, and demeaning people... Why should it be different now? Because its directed at you?"

    No, because those articles aren't serious. However, they can spark serious discussions, and within those discussions things should be rational.

    "You're turning people away from the site. This place it supposed to be fun."

    I do this on 3 articles (piggy dolls, boom, this) out of a bazillion and suddenly I'm ruining the site? You're exaggerating things. If it's a carefree topic then I won't care. If I decide to actually say something and you don't want to argue with me, feel free to not argue with me. If I need to cool my jets, maybe the people bitching at me should as well?

    As for driving people away, we have never given a shit about whether or not you like coming here. The funny thing is a lot of you bitch but then come back anyway. HOWEVER, I do agree that the site should generally remain lighthearted. That is why my articles never try to make grand statements about the kpop industry.

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  89. the never ending saga continues....September 5, 2011 at 5:44 PM

    Ah, how did I know you'd be back...

    If you agree that this site should remain lighthearted, back off and learn how to let things go.

    Say your piece and move on. The site will be a much happier place because of it. Thanks!

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  90. If my piece is really big, and requires more elaboration because people didn't understand or pay attention because they were too busy imagining things I never said to hate me for, it will be big.

    Sorry that you think 3 articles have made the entire site an unhappy place. Since you feel that way, perhaps you should learn to let things go.

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  91. 아저씨's at it again. Bitches never learn, yo.

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  92. neither do you. nor I for that matter. so let's all get to terms with it and stop accusing each other, either get back on topic or just drop it.

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  93. Makes so much sense now lolSeptember 13, 2011 at 8:02 AM

    Now I see why everyone hates 아저씨...

    Uck.

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