Wednesday, July 20, 2011

Misogyny: By Women, for Women - Double Standards in K-Pop

Hi, I'm new! So I'm sorry if I fuck this up! Feel free to criticize. I've been monitoring this blog for a while and there are tons of things I think of that would make great articles here. In the past I'd post my opinions on tumblr and twitter which resulted in a loss of followers. I'm glad to be here because there's no bullshit here. I'm a fangirl, but I'm not a batshit one.

This was my application article. I'm sorry if it's a bit long but it honestly could have been a lot longer.

If you don't know what double standards are... well, you're about to. It's everywhere in K-Pop, you've inevitably seen it. And most of the time it is completely uncalled for. There are the girls who decide to hate a female idol simply because she stood too close to her bias. Some hate women for their choice of clothing which, obviously, is completely absurd. The best of these fangirls though, in my opinion, are the ones who claim that they don't hate all female idols, they like Amber! As if that counts.

Examples I've encountered In the past:

Hyuna's Bubble Pop MV. The most common comments you will see are that she's a “try-hard slut” for doing overly provocative dance moves in such little clothing. Of course, a fangirl's male bias ripping his shirt off and hip-thrusting in your face is more than perfectly acceptable.

Sulli made an entry in her journal when she was nine years old. NINE. “I know I'm pretty but I do not know why people why the other people think I'm pretty.” The comments on the entry call her rude and conceited.

Suzy takes lots of pictures of herself. The comments, all by fangirls, say that she's a conceited camwhore. A lot of the comments even said she was too ugly to be taking that many pictures of herself.

Super Junior's Heechul, a full grown man, constantly makes arrogant statements that he's the most handsome man in the world, among other things. He posts so many pictures of himself that his fans can't even keep up with them. The comments for him call him a unique idol, praising him for how original he is. They think he's funny for posting so many pictures of himself. Yeah, funny. Suzy is a conceited bitch and Heechul is funny. Okay.

Krystal jokingly told her skating instructor that she was going to be his diet coach. I saw so many comments calling her a rude bitch without even watching the clip to see that she meant it as a joke.

Key told KARA’s Nicole to lose weight. Just straight up said it. His fans defended him by saying he was just being honest and there's nothing wrong with that.

Krystal makes a lighthearted joke and is an evil bitch but Key tells someone they're fat and he's an honest person. I see.

There are literally hundreds of examples of things like this. I don't understand how a girl's mind is producing thoughts like these and somehow thinking they're logical ideas.

Girls tend to harbor hatred for one another without fully realizing it. Even when girls are young, they naturally think bad things about each other without noticing that they’re being mean. It’s almost something natural, it’s actually hard to avoid. Animal-like instincts, perhaps. Men are territorial, women are... bitchy.

When people see girls, they judge them more harshly than guys due to outer appearances. I don’t mean whether they’re hot or not, although sometimes that seems to spark jealousy, considering girls in the spotlight that aren’t called pretty receive considerably less hate than those who are often praised for their beauty (Hyoyeon vs. Yoona, Amber vs. Krystal). When people see a girl and hear her for the first time, it’s easy to think “wow, she seems really bitchy.” That seems to happen quite a bit, right? People rarely get to know a girl before they judge her. Sometimes, when you take the time to know someone, you might realize that you were wrong. Girls will easily like a guy because of his charms from the beginning but they will often shun a girl due to first impressions.

However natural these feelings may be, fangirls always seem to take it to a whole new level. You'd think girls would support each other rather than shitting all over each other for silly reasons.


  1. LOL thank you!!!!

    personally i can't stand either one of them when a guy or girl gets out of line I bash the shit out of both of them!!

  2. BOOM! There goes the truth bomb~

  3. i totally agree.

  4. holy crap, thank you for this article. couldn't agree more.

    it almost makes me wanna cry when I see all those teenage girls calling Hyuna a slut because of Bubble pop... because she's wearing tops that flaunt her (nonexistant) cleavage and because she shakes her ass for the camera. don't they understand they're degrading themselvs as well as her? ugh.

    though, before I burst out to tears I tend to remind myself that those commenteers were probably raised in countries where women are still treated as second class citizens...

    hey bro, where'd yo shirt go? why you always flexin? what a tryhard
    yeesh, what a manslut.

  6. @dice


  7. For me there is none worse than the batshit crazy fans of the repeat offenders: SUPER fucking JUNIOR. Some of these boys like Leeteuk who seem to make an olympic sport out of spouting offensive shit (I fucking hate his ass), Shindong and Yesung who denounce fat girls, and closet case Siwon who doesn't acknowledge homosexuals are always being defended by crazed ELFs because OPPAR didn't mean it. But when SNSD unnies or any female idol does ANYTHING at all that's not even close to the shit these guys pull, these same fangirls point their fingers and give these female idols hell. It's ridiculous and not right.

  8. excellent first post, this is an issue I (and I'm sure loads of other "mellows") have been wondering about for a while now. for me, I notice it most when female idols get into "scandals" (which are usually storms in tiny teacups) and proceed to get torn to shreds by netizens... the very same who don't say a word when a male idol does something even more drastic. it's scary to imagine the backlash that would arise if a girl group member crashed and killed a motorcyclist, instead of a big bang member.

    of course the big question is why attitudes are so different coming from different genders. the girl psychology in the post was pretty insightful (but alas, nothing on how to charm my way into their boudoires). as a guy, I can only guess social perceptions are to blame: girls are supposed to gossip, fawn over hunky (or effeminate) internet idols, and make loads of comments from muscle size to fashion sense, while if a guy started obsessing over girl idols, he'd be called a fucking pussy (something I believe to be untrue. have you seen how hot some of them are?!). I would imagine girls feel less restricted in voicing out all their comments, ichor and all, whilst guys just watch the music videos on mute, and then go play starcraft 2 or something. we do not give a shit if some guy idol hits on a hot girl idol (except jessica); heck, I believe we welcome even the tiniest chance of a sex tape. well, I figure more "mature" kpop fans all start to feel this way eventually, be they guys or girls (as evinced by the fine folks on this site). but yeah, I guess guys just don't care as much.

    am I rambling? its 2 am and I spent all day working on my horrible dissertation on promises.

    ps. I guess you really liked Goodbye Baby huh?

  9. Good first post! I have seen these types of comments when I watch videos. I honestly don't understand why people get so passionate about kpop groups. There passion gets in the way of actually having a conversation about what is good and what is not. For example, today I heard the new 2ne1 songs "Hate you" and honestly it was pretty crappy---I'm a blackjack and I say this. I cannot think of one group where every single songs is great, it just doesn't happen. Also, it does annoy me when girls get mad because a kpop girl was in a video with the boy band crush.

    pretty stupid!

    Well, bye!

  10. What happens when a girl group member gets caught smoking? has that ever happened? i wanna know cuz akp commenters didn't even care that kikwang smoked but i can just imagine them calling a female idol a bad influence etc...

  11. Noice, noice.

    The gender equality situation is still different in Korea, but considering a lot of fans hail from places that tout greater "equality of persons"... they must be a bunch of gorillas.

  12. i still think Krystal is a rude bitch tho.
    but other than that you is making sense.

  13. "considering girls in the spotlight that aren’t called pretty receive considerably less hate than those who are often praised for their beauty"

    hence, 2ne1's horde of FEMALE fans...

    offtopic: im hesitant about posting my first article since all of you other new writers posted really good stuff...

  14. @Gilt
    I'm just not very creative and that line was stuck in my head, so I made it into a username lol. But I do really like Goodbye Baby.

    Everyone called kick wang and that B2ST guy sexy for smoking. A girl would probably be shunned forever for it.

    I don't think Krystal is a rude bitch but if she is she can be my best friend.

    Just go for it! You'll never know until you try :3

  15. Haha, continue to bash your own kind immature girls. It only gives misogynists the ammo they need to say that women are beneath them. Those are concepts, not their personalities. For all we know, they could be really sweet and kind girls.

  16. @5:28
    SOOOO Much. Suju should be the poster children for this article tbh. I have never seen more delusional stans than ELFs especially leeteuk stans. He said a 17 year old girl needed to lose weight and let a fellow member defend him yet his fans said he did nothing wrong and said it was the truth! Not nearly as disgusting as roly poly shindong though who said women shouldn't be fat- obviously he never looked in a mirror. Yet these girls attacked the global talk show ladies for calling their suju oppas short, WTF. I feel like suju and elfs are just the most twisted, deluded, lowest of the low tbh. And don't even get me started on the kind of hate girls who get too close to their oppas receive (the girl who took a pic with kangin who ended up killing herself from the hate she got) when their oppas can be free to flirt it up and act like sexist chauvinistic pigs. I don't hate them but I can't stan them because 90% of their fans and some of the members bother the shit out of me. Ugh. They are the perfect representation of double standard imo.

  17. lolokay.

    The comments on this all bashing SJ stans.
    I'm an SJ stan. But I'm not a stupid one. You're most likely looking at the crazies. I've been in kpop for a long ass time and I've managed to pick the crazies out of my life and I'm left with a wonderful bunch of people who aren't like the stans that you've described.
    My SJ stan friends are amazing. And have an average age of about 20. That helps. The problem with SJ is most of their fans are about 12. But if you find the good ones, we're not fucked in the head like that.

  18. Not gonna lie, this was really a good article. However, as Victoria once said, 'I'm a girl, so naturally I'm a little jealous'. I think this is simply to do with their femininity. I'm not saying that's necessary a good thing, but it's definitely what society imposes and what seems to be 'natural'. So it should be natural that girls like guys, and are jealous of other (pretty or not,) girls. -prior1ty

  19. Another thing I noticed was that most of the examples were from younger, less experienced girls in the industry. The older and more mature you are, the less this affects you I think. - prio

  20. Kara has the highest ratio of fanboys to fangirls, and I can say they are more cute than they are pretty. It also explains why Kamilias are generally tame and indifferent towards all the negativity their girls receive. Much of the hate is from fangirls of other girl groups who are less successful and see them as an obvious threat, though I can't say the same for other girl groups. SNSD carries the worst kind of fans, both male and female. You would have thought that the infamous Black Ocean displayed a lesson about manners and respect. They still haven't been appropriately put in their place yet, which is why the disease carries on over to other fandoms and spreads like wildfire.

  21. wow,this is a very well-written article,and i couldn't agree more.i couldn't stand the bashings many female idols get just because of some small insignificant actions they didn't intend to do.some female idols could even get hated for absolutely no reason at all.i don't involve myself in those forum arguments to defend some of the female idols because i know this wouldn't get me's kinda sad for all the hate these female idols get as they work as hard as anybody else in the industry.
    OH and i agree with the comment on top ^ although i'm a proud SONE i gotta admit that some fans do go overboard.SONEs and ELFs are the craziest fans in my opinion.

  22. Completely agree. Thank you

  23. nice article. and you're totally right.

    I remember when I liked rania when they debut and JESUS FUCKING CHRIST the absolute HATE fangirls would spit at them. What century are they popping out of when they call other girls too slutty?
    As for hyuna...i just fucking dislike that girl for, not her looks, but for her. ha! at least i'm not hatin' for the wrong reasons.

  24. ^ You are free to do that, however please don't ruin for those that actually do like her for her. The golden rule can definitely be applied here and to kpop in general.

    Case in point: SNSD fans bashing AKB48, yet with the same tongue demanding that they be successful in their country.

  25. this is all true. misogyny from women by women is always the wost. and slut shaming just makes me sad :(

  26. This is a very well written article. Good job on your first post. I completely agree with this.

  27. am i the only one who was paying attention to the song rather than the MV of bubble pop?

    really, i hardly even noticed her ass...and couldn't care less about how much clothing she was wearing (as long as it's not no clothing at all).

    don't get me wrong, i tend to avoid labeling people but..
    what i am concerned about are girls that go out of their way to dress up scantily-clad just to grab the attention of horny males IRL. there are other examples but the whole submissive idea feels rather degrading, belonging to the same gender; it's as if we're back to being 2nd class citizens.

    but excessive provocativeness (for both genders) was the reason why i ran away from mainstream american music towards k-pop, so rania came as a shock to me. and i also prefer guys to keep their shirts on >_>

    i still rate songs and singers by their ability to sing so i don't exactly reject rania simply for being "slutty".

  28. You know we learned about this in college,this kind of behaviour. This is not just kpop (but im sure you mentioned that)its life in general. Its the patriarchal values that we have been brought up in.Where for centuries men have done this to women,saying you cant do this, you cant be that,you cant go there,you cant say this.And with time,men stopped saying and doing these things, and instead women adopted this behaviour.Where we beat each other down,example the first few women in the states who wanted the right to vote,where not only cockblocked by men but mostly by other women.
    Its the patriarchal values dude,at fucking work.

    For the Hyuna thing,Im not saying she shouldnt shake the ass her momma clearly didnt give her, my point with that tryhard is dont look like a tryhard while doing it.Its offensive,why should we be subjected to that.esshhh!!!

  29. Key called nicole fat?....
    i need that elitist gif inserted right here!


    That's enough ass for me. UNF!

  31. Standards are always so different.... When a girl group misses a few notes in a live performance, everyone races to call the members "talentless shit".

    When a guy group completely fails a live performance or lipsings 70% of a song (Yes, I'm looking at you , Super Junior and Taeyang, as much as I like you guys), all the fangirls jump to bitch about haters and comment "BUT THEY DANCING FOR OPPARS WAS SO HARD! AND THE MICS PROBABLY WEREN'T GOOD! AND EVERYONE'S PROBABLY TIRED... STUPID SM/YG/JYP/company name! OPPARS ARE THE BEST! HWAIGHTING!"


  32. Yes I agree a guy should be called on his BS when he does stuff but that doesn't make his female counterpart any more able to do it. Hyuna shaking her junk all in the camera and squeezing her chest is just as slutty as a guy ripping his shirt off and thrusting for no apparent reason in a MV. Because the guy doesn't get called on it as much (if ever) as the girl does not mean that when the girl does it it should just be ok.

    I for one am quick to point out that something is wrong whether male or female.
    I will agree the kpop stan-girls do need to take the blind folds off when it comes to their oppars and stop sippin the hater juice when it comes to female idols but they are not at times ALL wrong when they point out these girls.

    When people make arguments like yours it always sounds to me like "Well Jennifers mom lets her do it why can't I?"


    Comments here are ridiculous.

  34. @dice
    Oh my. Thank you. I don't get people saying she doesn't have an ass so she shouldn't shake it. I think it's wonderful *A*

    I'm just saying that girls do need to realize that they can't call a girl slutty for wearing a shirt that shows her stomach and call a guy ripping his shirt off and humping the air sexy.

    I can't even...

  35. Key is free to call Nicole fat just like people here call idols ugly and mannish...

    Krystal was within her rights to crack that joke.

    It's fangirls that need to be taken out back & shot.

  36. The double standards in K-pop are extremely obvious, especially in how rabid fans interact with antis.

  37. 아멘! PREACH IT.

  38. KEYS A BITCH FOR CALLING HER FAT WTF!!! nah shit dont roll right like that..

  39. @ June 20, 7:05 pm

    I completely agree about the suju thing. I really try to like them but some of thier memembers ALONG WITH the 13 year old fans make it really hard to actually LIKE Super Junior and believe me I try, it's just easier when you don't listen to most of them talk. They come across as soo disgustingly egocentric and arrogant that I'm often beside myself as to what to do. And they get away with it because they know they have an army of cultish 13 year olds ready to fight to the death for their right to offend whatever poor sould might be in their path. Suju may be hard working but I can honestly say that they are the first idol group I ever considered to be rude/arrogant. It all starts with the leader. Eeteuk is rude and arrogant and vain, plain and simple. Kagin lorded the power of his fans over that poor host in Suju idol show and eunhyuk acted like a jerk to seungyeon at the King of Idol special. He has gotten more and more cocky as he gets more and more popular. Heechul, I don't like the way he looks at people. and Eeteuk, well he was mean to Kyuhyun, his OWN member so I'm never surprised by him doing mean things. Yesung actually called Kara unpopular one time which is just plain rude. But like I said, they get away with it because their fans let them.


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